BILL MOYERS: This week on Moyers & Company long time insider Mike Lofgren on what he calls the big story of our times – the Deep State.

MIKE LOFGREN: It is, I would say, the red thread that runs through the history of the last three decades. It's how we had deregulation, financialization of the economy, the Wall Street bust, the erosion of our civil liberties, and perpetual war.

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BILL MOYERS: Welcome. If you’ve read the espionage novels of John le Carré, you know that no other writer today has so brilliantly evoked the subterranean workings of government, perhaps because he himself was once a British spy. Le Carré has a name for that invisible labyrinth of power. He calls it the “Deep State.” And now an American you're about to meet in this broadcast has seized on that concept to describe the forces he says are controlling our government, no matter the party in power.

But Mike Lofgren’s no intelligence agent, although he had a top secret security clearance. He’s a numbers man, a Congressional staff member for 28 years with the powerful House and Senate Budget Committees. Over the years, as he crunched those numbers, he realized they didn’t add up. Instead, they led him to America's own Deep State, where elected and unelected figures collude to protect and serve powerful vested interests.

Mike Lofgren was so disgusted, he not only left Capitol Hill, he left the Republican Party and wrote this book, “The Party Is Over: How Republicans Went Crazy, Democrats Became Useless and the Middle Class Got Shafted.” Now, at our request, and exclusively for, he has written “Anatomy of the Deep State.” You’ll want to read it as soon as we finish this conversation. Mike Lofgren, welcome.

MIKE LOFGREN: Good to be here again, Bill.

BILL MOYERS: This is a difficult subject to talk about. It would be easier if it were a conspiracy you were describing. But that's not the case, is it?

MIKE LOFGREN: No. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. This is not some cabal that was hatched in the dark of night. This is something that hides in plain sight. It's something we know about, but we can't connect the dots, or most people don't connect the dots. It's kind of a natural evolution when so much money and political control is at stake in the most powerful country in the world. This has evolved over time.

BILL MOYERS: And you call it the real power in the country.

MIKE LOFGREN: Correct. It is a hybrid of corporate America and the national security state. Everyone knows what the military-industrial complex is, since Eisenhower talked about it in his farewell address.

DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER: We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence whether sought or unsought by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes.

MIKE LOFGREN: Everyone knows Wall Street and its depredations. Everyone knows how corporate America acts. They're both about the same thing. They're both about money, sucking as much money out of the country as they can. And they're about control, corporate control and political control.

BILL MOYERS: You said this, in your judgment, is the big story of our time.

MIKE LOFGREN: It is the big story of our time. It is, I would say, the red thread that runs through the history of the last three decades. It's how we had deregulation, financialization of the economy, the Wall Street bust, the erosion of our civil liberties, and perpetual war.

BILL MOYERS: You write that the “secret and unaccountable Deep State floats freely above the gridlock between both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue is the paradox of American government in the 21st century.”

MIKE LOFGREN: Well, that's just the thing. The common narrative of the last five years, and on a superficial level it's right, is that government is broken. It's dysfunctional. It's gridlocked. Well, that's true. And that is the visible the government, the constitutional government we learn about in Civics 101. And it is gridlocked.

But somehow, Obama can go into Libya. He can assassinate US citizens. He can collect all our phone records without a buy or a leave from anyone. He can even bring down a jet carrying a president of a sovereign country without asking anyone's permission. And no one seems to connect the two, the failure of our visible constitutional state and this other government that operates according to no constitutional rules or any constraint by the governed.

BILL MOYERS: You go on to say, though, that it's not just the executive branch that is the heart of this, that it's just one of the several constituencies that make up what you call the Deep State.

MIKE LOFGREN: Well, it's all the national security functions of the government. It's the Pentagon. It's Homeland Security. It's the State Department. It's also Treasury because they have a kind of symbiotic relationship with Wall Street.

BILL MOYERS: For one thing, they control the flow of money.

MIKE LOFGREN: Absolutely. That's why there's such a flow not only of money, but of personnel between Wall Street and the Treasury Department. There's other aspects of government. There's a portion of the judiciary-- a small portion of the judiciary, the so-called Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Courts. Most of Congress doesn't even know how they operate.

BILL MOYERS: Talk a little more about the nexus, the connection, between the national security state and Wall Street. Because this is a theme that runs through your essay.

MIKE LOFGREN: Do you know that about 30 blocks north of here there is a restaurant that will sell you a truffle for $95,000. Also in New York, Christie's sold at auction a painting by Francis Bacon for $142 million. Now a parallel situation with the national security state. The NSA spent $1.7 billion to build a facility in Utah that will collect one yottabyte of information. That's as much information as has ever been written in the history of the world.

It costs $400 by the time the Pentagon finishes paying contractors to haul one gallon of gasoline into Afghanistan. That’s a real extravagant amount of money. In both cases of the national security state and the corporate state, they are sucking money out of the economy.

As our infrastructure collapses, we have a Tinkertoy power grid that goes out every time there's inclement weather. Tens of millions of people are on food stamps. We incarcerate more people than China, an authoritarian state with four times our population. Does anyone see the disparity between this extravagance for the Deep State and the penury that is being forced on the rest of the country? That isn't a natural evolution. Something made it happen.

We're having a situation where the Deep State is essentially out of control, it’s unconstrained. Since 9/11 we have built the equivalent of three Pentagons around the DC metropolitan area, holding defense contractors, intelligence contractors, and government civilians involved in the military-industrial complex. There are over 400,000 contractors, private citizens, who have top-secret security clearances.

BILL MOYERS: And they are heart and soul of the Deep State, as you describe it.

MIKE LOFGREN: Absolutely.

BILL MOYERS: They're being privatized. Which means the power shifts from accountable officials to unaccountable contractors.

MIKE LOFGREN: About 70 percent of the intelligence budget goes to contracts.

BILL MOYERS: How new is this? I mean, back in 2010, the Washington Post published a stunning investigation of what the editors called "top-secret America” I mean, we have known about this, have we not?

MIKE LOFGREN: Yes, we know about this, but the intelligence functions of the government are too important to outsource in the manner we have. It's something where absolute discretion is needed and absolute trust that they are not violating civil liberties. And to put this kind of a burden, if you will, on private-contract employees is, I think, become a great disservice.

BILL MOYERS: You say that you came to question this. It took you a while. It was a gradual enlightenment that took place. You were dealing with big numbers and particular details in the budgets that all of these agencies were sending to you when you were on Capitol Hill, right? You were seeing the numbers?

MIKE LOFGREN: Absolutely.

BILL MOYERS: And you-- what was happening to the numbers?

MIKE LOFGREN: At the end of 2001 is-- we appropriated a lot of money and it didn't seem to be going to Afghanistan, the approximate source of the 9/11 attacks. It seemed to be going to the Persian Gulf region. And I said, "What's going on here? Saddam Hussein didn't bring down the twin towers." So, the little light went on. And I began to sort of disenchant myself from the normal group think that tends to take over in any organization.

BILL MOYERS: Group think? At some point in your essay, you talk about how groupthink drives the Deep State.

MIKE LOFGREN: It absolutely does, just as it tends to drive any bureaucratic organization.

BILL MOYERS: What do you mean by groupthink?

MIKE LOFGREN: Well, the psychologist Irving Janis called it groupthink. It's a kind of assimilation of the views of your superiors and your peers. It's becoming a yes man. And in many respects, it's an unconscious thing.

BILL MOYERS: Yeah, remember what Upton Sinclair once said "It's difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it."

MIKE LOFGREN: That is certainly part of it

BILL MOYERS: You describe Washington as clearly and obviously the headquarters of the Deep State. But talk about some of the others who are in the game.

MIKE LOFGREN: Wall Street is, perhaps, the ultimate backstop to the whole operation. Because they generate so much money that they can provide second careers for a lot of the government operatives. They're going to make more money than they ever dreamed they would on Wall Street. And I think a good example of that is the most celebrated soldier of the last decade David Petraeus. What did he do when he retired? He went to Kohlberg Kravis Roberts, a Wall Street buyout firm with $90 billion in assets under management.

BILL MOYERS: You describe him as a kind of avatar of the Deep State.

MIKE LOFGREN: He is, in a way. Because he now represents both ends of it. We see now our present-day Cincinnatus did not pick up the plow when he lay down the sword.

BILL MOYERS: Cincinnatus was the Roman who left his farm to become a general in the war. When the war was over, he went back to be a farmer. That doesn't happen today.

MIKE LOFGREN: No, it doesn't. The vast majority of generals seem to end up on the boards of defense contractors.

BILL MOYERS: Talk a little bit about what you call this strange relationship between Silicon Valley and the government, and how it fits into the Deep State.

MIKE LOFGREN: Well, the National Security Agency could not do what it does, the CIA could not do what it does, without Silicon Valley. Now, Silicon Valley, unlike the defense contractors, mostly sells to private individuals and to companies. It's not a big government vendor. However, its services are necessary. And de facto, they have become a part of the NSA's operations. I'm sure the CEOs of some of these companies try to obscure the fact that this has mostly been voluntary for many years.

BILL MOYERS: You mean the surveillance?

MIKE LOFGREN: The surveillance.

BILL MOYERS: The gathering of information of unknowing citizens.

MIKE LOFGREN: Absolutely.

BILL MOYERS: For commercial purposes, though.

MIKE LOFGREN: Precisely. They've done it themselves and they've assisted the NSA through a FISA court order.

BILL MOYERS: Foreign Intelligence--

MIKE LOFGREN: Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. So, this has been going on for quite a while. Yet now, like Inspector Renault, they are "shocked, shocked" to find out. But I think their main shock is that they're now starting to lose market share in foreign countries.

BILL MOYERS: These moguls, as you call them, pass themselves off as libertarians.

MIKE LOFGREN: Oh, they do. They make a big pretense about being libertarians and believing in the rugged individualism and so forth. But they've been every bit as intrusive as the NSA has been, in terms of collecting your data for commercial purposes, rather than so-called national security purposes.

But they're in it just as heavily as the NSA is. And they somehow manage to get the intellectual property laws rigged so that you are theoretically subject to a fine of up to $500,000 for jail breaking your phone.

BILL MOYERS: Which means?

MIKE LOFGREN: Which means if you don't like the carrier on your phone that the manufacturer dictates you shall have and you change it without authorization you don't have the right to something you bought.

BILL MOYERS: Could this symbiotic and actual relationship between Silicon Valley and the government reflecting the Deep State, explain the indulgence Washington has shown Silicon Valley on matters of intellectual property?

MIKE LOFGREN: Absolutely. People no longer necessarily own their property that they buy if they're buying it from Silicon Valley. They simply have a kind of lease on it.

BILL MOYERS: If, as you write, the ideology of the Deep State is not democrat or republican, not left or right, what is it?

MIKE LOFGREN: It's an ideology. I just don't think we've named it. It's a kind of corporatism. Now, the actors in this drama tend to steer clear of social issues. They pretend to be merrily neutral servants of the state, giving the best advice possible on national security or financial matters. But they hold a very deep ideology of the Washington consensus at home, which is deregulation, outsourcing, de-industrialization and financialization. And they believe in American exceptionalism abroad, which is boots on the ground everywhere, it's our right to meddle everywhere in the world. And the result of that is perpetual war.

BILL MOYERS: And you say it is shadowy and more ill-defined. More ill-defined than what?

MIKE LOFGREN: It's more ill-defined than simply saying Wall Street or saying the military-industrial complex, or saying Silicon Valley, or the corporations. It's a symbiosis of all of the above.

BILL MOYERS: Here's your summing-up quote: "As long as appropriations bills get passed on time, promotion lists get confirmed, black or secret budgets get rubber stamped, special tax subsidies for certain corporations are approved without controversy, as long as too many awkward questions are not asked, the gears of the hybrid state will mesh noiselessly." Is that the ideology?

MIKE LOFGREN: That is a government within a government that operates off the visible government and operates off the taxpayers. But it doesn't seem to be constrained in a constitutional sense by the government.

BILL MOYERS: Is there a solution to the way the system works now?

MIKE LOFGREN: I think we're starting to see some discord in the ideology of the factions that make up the Deep State. We're seeing Silicon Valley jump ship. They are starting to protest against the NSA. We're seeing the Tea Party bailing out against the Deep State. They may be wrong on many economic issues. But I don't think they're necessarily wrong on this one.

BILL MOYERS: So the public could be growing wise?

MIKE LOFGREN: I think they are. There's a much more vivid debate going on in the country about surveillance ever since the revelations by Edward Snowden.

BILL MOYERS: Mike Lofgren, thank you very much for being with me.

MIKE LOFGREN: It’s good to be here, Bill.

BILL MOYERS: Thanks to the journalist Lee Fang, we have another revelation into how the Deep State enterprise works. Writing for the Republic Report, a non-partisan, non-profit that investigates money in politics, he takes up that controversial trade deal called the Trans-Pacific Partnership that President Obama is trying to push through Congress with minimum debate and no amendments. Controversial because some of its provisions reportedly enable corporate power to trump representative government, even go around domestic courts and local laws. One is said to prevent governments from enacting safeguards against another bank crisis, another to empower corporations to sue governments for compensation if, say, environmental protections, or regulations on tobacco and drugs interfered with future profits.

Because of the secrecy we don’t know everything that’s in the draft agreement. Senator Elizabeth Warren calls it “a chance for these banks to get something done quietly out of sight that they could not accomplish in a public place with the cameras rolling and the lights on.”

Which brings us to two officials chosen by President Obama to lead those trade negotiations. Lee Fang reports that they received multi-million dollar bonuses as they left giant financial firms to join the government. Bank of America gave this man, Stefan Seelig, more than $9 million in bonus pay as he was nominated to become the Under Secretary of Commerce for International Trade. And this man, Michael Froman, got over $4 million when he left Citigroup to become the current US trade representative. Now, both are no doubt honorable men – they are all honorable men – but when push comes to shove, and the financial interests of huge corporations are on the table, we can only hope they will act as independent men, not faithful servants of the Deep State. But given the secrecy, we may never know.

According to Fang, many large corporations with a strong incentive to influence public policy give executives bonuses and other incentive pay if they take jobs within the government. Among them: Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan Chase, the Blackstone Group, Fannie Mae, Northern Trust. Citigroup even provides an executive contract that awards additional retirement pay upon leaving to take a “full time high level position with the US government or regulatory body.” I'm not making this up. You get a bigger incentive if you leave Wall Street to go regulate Wall Street. So it is the fox is groomed for the chicken coop, and the Deep State grows fat on its prey.

Coming up on Moyers & Company, a powerful new book breaks the code of "Dog Whistle Politics."

IAN HANEY LÓPEZ: Dog whistle politics doesn't come out of animus at all. It doesn't come out of some desire to hurt minorities. It comes out of a desire to win votes. And in that sense, I want to start using the term strategic racism. It's racism as a strategy. It's cold, it's calculating, it's considered, it's the decision to achieve one's own ends, here winning votes, by stirring racial animosity.

And here's a hard, difficult truth. Most racists are good people. They're not sick. They're not ruled by anger or raw emotion or hatred. They are complicated people reared in complicated societies.

They're fully capable of generosity, of empathy, of real kindness. But because of the idea systems in which they're reared, they're also capable of dehumanizing others and occasionally of brutal violence.

BILL MOYERS: At our website,, remember to read the complete text of Mike Lofgren’s essay, “Anatomy of the Deep State,” and then tell us what you think. I’ll see you there and I’ll see you here, next time.

The Deep State Hiding in Plain Sight

February 21, 2014

Everyone knows about the military-industrial complex, which, in his farewell address, President Eisenhower warned had the potential to “endanger our liberties or democratic process” but have you heard of the “Deep State?”

Mike Lofgren, a former GOP congressional staff member with the powerful House and Senate Budget Committees, joins Bill to talk about what he calls the Deep State, a hybrid of corporate America and the national security state, which is “out of control” and “unconstrained.” In it, Lofgren says, elected and unelected figures collude to protect and serve powerful vested interests. “It is … the red thread that runs through the history of the last three decades. It is how we had deregulation, financialization of the economy, the Wall Street bust, the erosion or our civil liberties and perpetual war,” Lofgren tells Bill.

Lofgren says the Deep State’s heart lies in Washington, DC, but its tentacles reach out to Wall Street, which Lofgren describes as “the ultimate backstop to the whole operation,” Silicon Valley and over 400,000 contractors, private citizens who have top-secret security clearances. Like any other bureaucracy, it’s groupthink that drives the Deep State.

In conjunction with this week’s show, Mike Lofgren has written an exclusive essay, “Anatomy of the Deep State.”

Producer: Gina Kim. Segment Producer: Lena Shemel. Editor: Rob Kuhns. Intro Editor: Sikay Tang.

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  • Anonymous

    It is a conspiracy, it just didn’t happen in a single night. It was planned, and refined, over a period of decades.
    The part of the Government that is responsive to democracy is in gridlock. It’s the part that is responsive to the plutocracy that is working for them (and what Lofgren calls “The Deep State.”)

  • Anonymous

    “The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it comes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism – ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. ”

    ~Franklin D. Roosevelt

  • HoleshotHunter

    mr Bill Moyers: I am in agreement with you as to the “deep state”.

    I am shocked to see you muddle the truth with doublespeak. This sort of conceptual error is endemic in our society. The concept deep state seems to be ‘the combination of corporate power and government power’, which is how Il Duce defined FASCISM…and he should know his fascists. The wall street shenanigans you describe could be better called THEFT on an impossibly grand scale, and O’bama’s TPP is commonly called LYING to us all (again) in the race to get all of our money.
    I was a silicon valley inventor. I swore never to develop weapons or anything that could be turned against US. When I developed a system interconnect plug, it increased the speed of the internet (from copper to optics) on a contract for Cisco Systems. I had just enabled the fascist BHS. How was I to know??
    My income has dropped 82% since Bush’s wars on the people started. My business died under the boot heel of AIG… AFTER we bailed them out.

    Perhaps if the dissembling stops we can imprison these sociologically aberrant people. SOCIOPATHIC NUTS need to be locked away from society, to protect society.

  • Mike

    They say there is no name for their ideology because there is no ideology, no values. They are post-ideological, they are the result of capitalism’s consumption and destruction of industry and society. The final stage of capitalism that Marx predicted is coming to fruition after all.

  • Anonymous

    The link to the essay is broken.

  • Mary Comeau Petrou

    New world order!

  • Ed Shenk

    Every time this issue is brought up, I end up imagining the horror “the Founders” would feel, to witness even a minute portion of what these cronies get away with. If Ike saw the issue back during his Presidency, I fret to think about just how bad the problem really is Today. And I DON’T want to know!!

  • Ed Shenk

    Why blame it on Capitalism?? Clearly, there has been WAY too much Government meddling in the mix to squarely lay blame to a economic system that is supposed to be free from the intervening forces that have hijacked it. Capitalism gave us the Industrial Revolution, and all the billions upon billions donated through the the charitable acts of the men who made America what it is Today. At best I would call what we have as a pseudo Capitalist system that has been compromised by cronyism – it’s not the system’s fault, it is the fault of people whose self interests conflict with our own. No society that I ever heard of is free of that.

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  • Ed Shenk

    “New World Order”?? Politician’s of the day, often charged there was a need for a “New World Order” during the assemblage of the “UN” because of no one wanting to see a WW III. So far, so good.

  • Anonymous

    Got there. Thank you for your help.

  • James

    What did you think the NECON’s were going to do when they were allowed to take over the Pentagon ??? Under cover of the Iraq War and Faith Based

  • James

    How do you convince people who think their guns are the answer that they were supporting the take over of the U.S. Military by Corporations ?

  • James

    Why do people think President Obama has all this power don’t they realize he is basically a hostage in the White House ? The NEOCONS own the U.S. Government he is only allowed to do so much but has to take the blame for anything they do !

  • jilan

    WRONG! We the people/workers gave us the Industrial Revolution. Businesses do not create jobs, demand does. you can make all the widgets and gadgets galore but without demand business is sunk. The workers getting a fair wage creates the jobs by buying things. They dont put their billions in off shore accounts and accept corporate welfare. We’re all being pushed back into a Charles Dickens world and compared to other first world countries it ain’t pretty! 30 yrs of trickle down and theyre still laughing all the way to their banks! Go back and check out the 1950’s through the early 80’s and look at the stats for the middle class and the economic prosperity we had and others wanted to emulate. Tarriffs, a great way to keep jobs at home!

  • tripalittle

    This article is a contemporary take on the situation which has always been the case in this country. Read Howard Zinn’s “A Peoples’ History of America”. Comparing our situation to ancient Rome or Great Britain is disingenuous. These are not ancient evils rearing once again. This the way the world has always been. The Deep State is the rule, not an aberration. It exists because of a fundamental flaw in the human animal. Most humans are interested in present individual pursuits, family, social ties, etc. We let ourselves be abused instead of taking responsibility for the world in which we live. The Deep State exists because we need it to live in comparative comfort. These systems fall eventually because of the chaotic nature of reality that eventually challenges the the entrenched system.

  • Bernadene

    excellent excellent

  • justjoe

    We are there…and it’s a very scary place.

  • Mike

    its not really government meddling when all the meddlers come from Goldman Sachs and friends. These people are not even capitalists, they are rent extractors.

    You seem to be unfamiliar with Marx’s predictions on the trajectory of capitalist society. Its tendency to commodify all things in human life is destroying society on levels beyond just the economy. It has undermined culture and politics to where there is no genuine dialectic. A society without ideology, belief or even a sane and relevant discourse is doomed.

  • Mike

    To compare these people to Mussolini is an insult to him. He at least took down and arrested the Sicilian mafia. Despite our massive security apparatus we can’t even do that very well. At least Italy had someone in control behind the wheel. Right now we have no one in charge, everything is on auto pilot and it is heading right for a cliff.

  • Anatol

    excellent interview… but
    why try to justify these men by calling
    them honorable, good, capable of
    generosity & kindness… why not tell the truth… they are
    socio-paths… let’s not sacrifice truth to cowardly politeness…they
    have already destroyed 70% of earth’s ecosystem… and it will take only
    50 more years to destroy the rest…

  • Anatol

    unregulated unbridled capitalism is the problem… this was always the risk… FDR & Eisenhower warned us about it… that our government could be taken over by corporations & wall street…

  • Justin King

    This Town – by Mark Leibovich, gives you a front row seat on these games of the American oligarchs.

    In the interview, Lofgren is basically talking about a right-wing corporate mindset, although he makes it sound like it’s everyone’s fault.
    I don’t buy it, as any intelligent Liberal would never let this techno-plutocracy get started in the first place.
    If the Dems could hypothetically take back the House, alot of this corporate takeover would slow down a great deal.
    The repeal of Glass-Steagall and the Patriot Act are the two main reasons for all this very dangerous “deep state”, and both inspired by inherent Conservative STUPIDITY, which is always adjunct to avarice, greed, and a fearful need of external power.

  • Justin King

    A few decades ago, very few Congressman became lobbyists. Whereas today, a great majority become lobbyists, either outwardly or hiding in the bushes.
    A true paradigm shift.
    Corruption squared.

  • Justin King

    You can never convince a stupid person that he’s stupid.
    I’ve tried on Breitbart and the Daily Caller, and it’s like arguing with demented children. Plus they don’t even understand the concept of confirmation bias.
    —As long as the “outrage industry” keeps shouting into the ears of the inherently dogmatic, the Teabillies will continue to sabotage the system.

  • American Cognicide

    When you defend either side of the duopolic coin which is our government, you are engaging in the very “group think” which was mentioned in this segment. Obama is guilty. Anyone who is a crony is guilty. I am not throwing partisan bull at him, I will vote for neither of the red one or the blue one who own our government. But it is a fact. He has not broken from his script. If you think he is something other than how he had managed this country, then you have fooled by the cult of personality.

  • American Cognicide

    I wish I knew. I have been racking my brain, trying to think of a novel way I can introduce this video when I post it, so that my FB “friends” who are apathetic to politics, might be motivated to watch this. Nothing of significance in this video was news to me. But this is a good summary of ALL the topics upon which I rally every single day. If I can change the cognition of just one…………

  • Mike

    The dems have not been liberals in decades. Only on pet social issues.

  • Anonymous

    welcome to group thinking Mr King- your seat is waiting for you

  • Anonymous

    oh and he had NO idea what was going on before he considered running for Pres? nobody from the establishment sat him down and said “we need a favor and you’re the right guy at the right time”?

  • Anonymous

    you’ve tried on Breitbart and Daily Caller? you mean you argue your opinion all day, calling people names to try to prove your point- you’re THAT guy? you’re right and everyone is wrong? you’re THAT guy?

    well then, its an honor to meet you- btw, how’s that working out for you?

  • Elisabeth

    The truth only few care to know… Which is the root of the problem…there can’t be outrage for those who are not hungry and those who are might not care to know that truth

  • Anonymous

    “Capitalism” is a game that only works, like any game, if people follow the rules. If some of the players “buy” the referees, then it’s no longer a viable game, at all. So far, in our history, whenever the game becomes too corrupted, unsportsmanlike conduct is called and some of the players are ejected. This has to happen in order for the game to continue. Without rules and regulation, Capitalism cannot exist.
    In our system, we rely on the Supreme Court to determine what constitutes the rules. Unfortunately, being human, they have made egregious errors, “Citizens United” being one of them.

  • Edward Moriarty

    Unrestrained, under regulated Capitalism is a cancer on this planet and the humans who inhabitant it. Granted, Capitalism has been the greatest “growth engine’ in history, but the accelerator of GREED is always to the floor and there is no braking mechanism. Supply side economics is nothing but and upside down economic system that allows producers to control price instead of that control coming from demand. The consumer is left out of the control mechanism and becomes just a conduit for $$$$ to flow upward. US peons know what the trickle down is.

  • Anonymous

    Despite all the power and glory that this sort of elitism implies, it really, still, comes down to money. As Lofgren lays out all of the apparatus required to manipulate America, the only thing the “who-done-its” respond to is a disruption of the flow of money to them. It is the only thing Silicon Valley will respond to. It is the only thing Wall Street will respond to. And, the Pentagon? Forgeddaboutit.

  • Anonymous

    All of this began way before the Glass-Steagall repeal. Try looking up “The Powell Memorandum”. Try going back to Congress during the Carter administration.

  • Anonymous

    Inasmuch as ideology played any role in this conspiracy, and given the political leanings of the players in this conspiracy, the onus of it has to land squarely in the right-wing court. The fact that the Tea Party may turn out to be a monkey wrench in the gears, doesn’t alter that.

  • Anonymous

    Deep state has been there for a very long time. It is just becoming more obvious in some media because without essential reforms, the world is going to be turned into Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Ukraine….Eventually, it will very likely lead to the collapse of the US as we know it…..

  • Anonymous

    He has managed the country fairly well, despite the hand he was dealt and the forces allied against him. The alternative of McCain/Palin or Romney/Ryan is too horrible to contemplate.

  • Matt

    The Deep State is antithetical to both traditional conservatism and to traditional progressivism, both of which are largely moribund political ideologies. By the way, both the repeal of Glass-Steagall and the passing and implementation of NAFTA, both of which enhanced Trans National Corporate power and profit, occurred under the aegis of the Clinton Administration.

  • Matt

    Confirmed bias is universal and is not a tendency or predisposition of any one group.

  • Matt

    Marxian analysis of the problem and the outcome was fairly spot on, but the solution was extremely flawed.

  • hector

    Wasn’t Sheldon Wolin, in 2003, political philosopher, first to describe this phenomenon? Now it’s “deep state,” in Wolin’s hands it’s “inverted totalitarianism,” a term I prefer because it really captures the threat to democracy we are today experiencing – an attack from all fronts.

  • Anonymous

    Lofgren confirmed what I have long suspected:
    the insect-like David Petraeus is a phony and the saddest excuse this country has ever had for a hero. Another message: thinking people will lessen their dependence on major institutions, including the government and financial complex.

  • Anonymous

    Lofgren pointed out that Deep State cuts across partisan lines. Not everything is about Barack Obama, but this noted, you are saying that it was the evil John Boehner or the manipulative George W. Bush who were marionette masters in examples of the power plays exhibited by the O-Man, including the murder of an American citizen.

  • Anonymous

    Bill Clinton signed the Glass-Stegall repeal.
    It was also in the Clinton years that the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act was revived, giving people the opportunity to buy homes, even if they could not afford them. Fast forward to the housing bubble that burst in 2007 (but did begin in the mid-to-late 90s).

  • Anonymous

    There are various aspects to that “outrage industry,” and they discredit both parties. I agree about the Tea Party, but I can point to the liberal side of things in their outreach to poverty-stricken, uneducated people, promising they will make things better for them, especially minorities. The government is not in the business of making things better for anyone but itself. Politicians are indifferent to the people who elected them and who pay income taxes to support their greed and power.

  • Rosalie

    As likeable as Mr Lofgren is surely is I think he is a bit of a feudal isolationsist . A human being ‘s capacity for emotional relationships are a basis for the curious traveler , reaching out to learn linguistics and traditions so that he can describe and understand other cultures .
    The very exotic foreigness of another nation can be a comfortable , stabilizing area of respect for interesting differences . There’s also a good definition needed for what does a diplomat and writer want . including solving social economomic problems If you only know one culture then you will never understand any culture , and isolationists run the gamut of aculturalized monotony .

  • Anonymous

    Perhaps you will remember that the repeal of Glass-Steagal was signed by Bill Clinton.

  • Anonymous

    Remember that he got more Wall St. money in ’08 than McCain did. The bankers, apparently, knew what he was better than than the voters did.

  • Stuart Boyle

    Everyone, both Democrats and Republicans were drinking the financial deregulation Kool-aid back in those days.

  • Stuart Boyle

    The CRA act did not force those banks to make bad loans. The fact is that sub-primes loans made the banks more money than prime loans. It’s that simple. Follow the greed.

  • Anonymous

    Why don’t we call it for what it is corporate fascism… The 5pillars of the state support this inverted totalitarianism…capital, labor, military, church, media and family perfectly aligned…Hedges got it down… Cheers

  • Kerri Faith Kellerman

    it’s systemic. the actors are opportunists. i hope for a constitutional convention but prepare for a civil war.

  • Anonymous

    It is the 1%er’ way of keeping the poor and middle 99%ers out of the opportunities, which for now works for the 1%ers .001%ers .0001% and then the last man standing alive. It would behoove the people to try to wake up and physically prevent these people going for the last person standing but if that is too inconvenient, we can always wait until the next ice age starts laying down the ice sheets that will cover the planet. But even that will not happen for a few more thousand years when the earth will hopefully be healed from these %er parasites

    Civilizations exist by geological consent, subject to change without notice. Will Durant

  • Fed Up

    Blaming one party shows your ignorance to the underlying problem.

    Last time I checked, it was Obama that signed the Patriot Act extension, was at the helm when the IRS scandal unfolded, DOJ spying happened, NSA spying unfolded, Obamacare disaster, Benghazi, Fast & Furious, etc, etc.

    Don’t act as if the democrats are the saviors of liberty. If anything, their track record over the last few years has proven them to be closer to communists than any other party.

  • Anonymous

    What Mike Lofgren described made me think of Jacques Ellul’s notion/frame/phenomenon…technique. Cole’s mention of invisibility I think goes along with the latter. Ellul’s idea is tough to summarize; that very toughness jives in a way, I think, with the invisible quality…if these things are the same thing as I think they are. What I took away from Ellul’s description (to try to impossibly condense it in one sentence) was that it was in the main sort of a psychology, or utilitarian zeitgeist (he wrote that actual hard technology is part of it too). BTW, to me Le Carre’s fictional characters have demonstrated an intoxication with their own canniness re efficient means to achieving goals.

    ‘We have so many people who are indoctrinated, who are admitted to the secrets of state, and we have the people outside the circle.’ John LeCarre, BBC interview

  • M Dayne

    Capitalism is premised upon competition. In the market place that means conquering ones competitors and securing the market for oneself. Greed begets power and power fuels greed. This cycle continues until there is no market left to sell to and the system collapses. It has happened before and will ultimately happen again. The ass-clowns that are sent to Washington have little appreciation of history and poor intellectual insight to look past their next election. They treat war and death like it is a video game and ignore the needs of the majority, pander to their donors and play the media and the voters for the fools they all are. The framers were right in assuming that a representative government was needed due to the ignorance of the masses. What they didn’t envision was the ignorance and greed of those elected by the masses. Stupid people elect stupid leaders. I wretch when I see Obama and his wife pandering on some goofy talk show. I just wish someone would ask them if they know the exact number of all persons killed in Iraq and Afganistan, but no, let’s slow jam the news with Fallon. Seriously? This is the most powerful man n the country?

    Allow me one tangent here…does anybody else wonder how Snowden ended up in Moscow and wonder if that wasn’t by design?

  • Saint Jimmy

    I realized what had happened to our system about 10 years ago and almost everything that has happened since fits my view of the system and what is described in these articles. We are past the point of “lawful” or even peaceful methods being effective in changing our political system. Face the ugly truth.

  • Saint Jimmy

    WAKE UP….. Almost ALL of our political “leaders” are phonies. In fact, I can only think of MAYBE two members of Congress who MIGHT not be phonies. They are all about themselves and the money and they don’t give ONE DAMN about the American People. The “national interest” is a JOKE to almost every member of congress and a joke to the Obamas.

  • Saint Jimmy

    How naïve. BOTH parties are completely bought and paid for. They are whores.

  • Saint Jimmy

    And they are both STILL drinking it.

  • Saint Jimmy

    Poor thing! He’s such a helpless babe in the woods!

  • Anonymous

    My friends in mortgage banking have numerous first-hand examples of the greed – from real estate agents pre-bubble to the banking industry post-bubble. You might revisit the 90s and the CRA. Banks were required to lend money to those high-risk groups. Had they not, they could have faced class action lawsuits. Everybody was happy – for a few years.

  • Anonymous

    I will not disagree.
    Petraeus is especially loathsome because he worked very hard to craft his image as a patriot and man of honor. Media fell in with him lock-step. Those pictures I get of him partying hard in Tampa, compliments of taxpayers, while young men and women under his command died in Iraq and Afghanistan, does not say “patriotic” to me. He worked hard to advance his own career but did little to advance our causes where he served. The Iraqi surge – his big moment – is generally seen now as a bust.

  • Anonymous

    So, when is Moyers going to see the wisdom of keeping a few guns against the worst these ethical morons might throw at us? If it walks like a psychopathic duck, quacks like a psychopathic duck, and flies like a psychopathic duck, then it is surely a psychopathic duck we are dealing with and to pretend that a psychopath is not a psychopath is very dangerous–and, I might add, pernicious also as advice for those who look up to and trust Moyers. So, I hope you are beginning to look at the facts Bill and are waking up to what the Founders understood when they wrote the Second Amendment and placed it right there as a bulwark against the essential weakness of the First.
    But your middle-of-the-road posture and your soft language does not encourage me that you are going to join the ranks at the barricades.
    As to his language, at the end of his summation he says, “because of the secrecy, we may never know.” This is neither correct nor does it go to the point. The secrecy that masks the activities of these monsters is as factual as the billions that the NSA spends on bricks and mortar to house their nefarious activities. Furthermore there is nothing new here; intellectuals have known for a very long time that what is absent is as glaring as what is clearly visible. And secrecy, what we don’t know about what is being done to us and why, in a supposedly free and open republic is as big as a red flag can get.
    And one more thing. Neither of these men seems to be alarmed by the facts that they do discuss. Though of the two Lofgren seems to be the most concerned with our loss of civil liberties. But neither have stated their alarm in language that might actually alarm, i.e., it is not there, and that absence we should look at very very hard. JWC

  • Anonymous

    The bulk of the official discussion of Snowden is designed to create and germinate in the public mind one thing: namely that Snowden is not what he says he is, is not a man of conscience. And that is right in front of us and that is what we need to look at!
    And notice that some of these men and women, who presume to be persons of conscience, actually call for an extrajudicial assassination of Snowden! What does that tell you about their expectation that the citizenry will receive this stuff with critical minds and see the contradiction?
    It seems that you, sir, are casting doubt (upon Snowden) at a time when what the public needs is clarity about essentials–and whether it is possible for a man to be what he says he is, is a discussion that is essential. And for an answer we had better come down on the right side–for in the pessemistic world that your casting of doubt would create it’s just dog eat dog and that is pretty much where our so-called “leaders” are right now. But we now need something sounder, something healthier. Please think about that. JWC

  • Anonymous

    Yes, intoxicated with a lower function of the mind. Haven’t you noticed that the brightest people are not always the best people? Self absorption is valid only when it is part of a vicious critical self analysis, i.e., “the business of the philosopher is death,” his own. JWC

  • Anonymous

    So, you noticed that both he and Moyers stayed away from addressing that question. They may have suggested it, but they did not address it. That is another absence that speaks volumes.
    But notice please the list of their corporate “sponsors.” The Ford Foundation? Jesus!
    So, one must ask, is Moyers as free and independent as we have usually thought him to be. Goodness! We are standing at the barricades; we want to know what to do. But to date all Moyers tells us is that we are bad, or crazy, or hooked on television and given to violence if we have a couple of guns–as our fathers and grandfathers did!
    What kind of advice is that when he has just outlined the depravity of the security (i.e., police) state and its systematic violations of principle and of people–and all over the world? So far from being sound such advice is a complete disconnect. Methinks there is a hidden agenda, or a “deep” prejudice behind this sort of astonishing disconnect, don’t you? Does he think it was a gun, or men, that killed his (our) president? Really, a thinking person is forced to ask these and other questions. JWC

  • Anonymous

    No. No new convention. The persons staffing it will be the same ones who are in control of the voting system right now. And when that happens we will have no sound universal principles at all to refer to. The Police State will then be the official state.
    So, be very careful here; this new con-con is a very very dangerous thing. Just keep asking yourself who will be chosen to go to that convention and who will be the ones choosing them.
    And then remember this: the Constitution is not broken. It is just ignored–by all three branches of government! We the citizens need to take back control and go back to first, “self evident,” principles; that is all.
    So, please look carefully at who is pushing for a new con-con. What’s his name, Mark Levin? Jesus! How’s that for a man who doesn’t have even one ounce of compassion compared to the well rounded souls of the Founders!
    Be very very careful here. It will not be easy to replicate the nexus of personalities and character that came together at the first constitutional convention. THAT, was very near a miracle. Don’t think it will happen again. As a teacher and a teacher of teachers I will tell you that in the first place, given the shambles our ed. system is in, who could possible have the preparation or the cultivated wisdom? Hell, wisdom isn’t even a word our graduates can spell, much less seek! Some of them don’t even know how many moons we have!

    So, please be careful here. JWC

  • Anonymous

    Carl: Your advice to military people to get out and get honest work is good advice.
    But I do want to say that the substance of the Constitution makes it very very clear that the Founders knew very well what was likely to happen to their new Republic–and indeed, when asked what sort of government they had given the people Franklin himself replied, “a republic, madam, if you can keep it.”
    So if I understand you, you are wrong when you say, “I do not think that they would imagine that many of today’s Americans
    who see what is happening are depressed over the events.” Their imagination was working very very well.
    Indeed, the text of the Constitution was an attempt to prevent “what is happening.” Nevertheless, what is happening today is stark proof that words alone, their wisdom alone, is not enough to preserve the Republic. We need men who actually understand it and will fight for it and not go to wars that violate it every day here and abroad. We need to invite our “representatives” home for a long long talk. Thanks for the comments. JWC

  • Anonymous

    Rosalie: What in the world are you talking about? We are killing men, women, and children abroad every day. This is not tourism. It is militarized imperialism! Is it isolationist to want to stop illegal and immoral wars? Really, I don’t get it sister. JWC

  • Anonymous

    Yes, it did not escape my notice that Moyers actually said this. But in saying this he is just fabricating a false though “reasonable” looking middle position. Basically it is dishonest. Alex Jones is loud but more honest. There is a time for the language of outrage–and we are in that time. JWC

  • Anonymous

    Yes, notice how shamelessly they throw it in our faces. But don’t worry; in the next election cycle “our guy” will get in and fix everything, right? Sure. JWC

  • Anonymous

    Clarify please. JWC

  • Anonymous

    Surely you are kidding. Why do you think that both parties are so desperate to prevent a third party candidate from mounting a genuine challenge. Hell, in Arizona the Democratic party went to court (Jesus!) to prevent Nader getting on the ballet. THEY asked the court to decide who I could vote for! And THEY, the court, actually thought it was their job to make that decision! So much for the party of the people, eh?
    But I never read any of that in the Constitution–and yet both parties give tons of lip service to the same Constitution you and I have. No, this partisan stuff is a game they run and you sir have fallen for it. “No gentleman is a partisan” as ageless wisdom has it. Please think about this. JWC

  • Anonymous

    Yes, Rose, it is a mere seeming. And millions and millions fall for it cycle after cycle–all of them hypnotized by their televisions sets and all the toys they can buy on credit. Stupid, really stupid, but there you have it. How do you think they got that stupid if it wasn’t by spending 12 + years in our public (and private) school system? A teacher, JWC

  • Stuart Boyle

    I was a bank examiner with the OCC back in the 90’s and performed safety and sound exams and CRA compliance exams. If we had determined that banks were acting in an unsafe manner we would have critical of that practice. Note that in the early 90’s we were still in the S&L crisis. The purpose of the act was for banks to serve all AREAS of the community, not just high income areas. Banks were/are able to provide banking services in a safe and sound manner to low to moderate income census tracts. It’s just a matter of finding credit worthy customers who live in those areas. Note that there are middle income people who live in those areas so there are credit worthy customers there. Also, note that mortgage companies are NOT bound by the requirements of CRA, just the banks.

  • Stuart Boyle

    It sounds like you are talking about FDIC insurance. If the banks failed the depositors are made whole. The shareholders would still lose everything. If you are talking about mortgage-backed securities, once the mortgages are packaged, it put a lot of the credit risk on the investors or companies which provided credit enhancements such as AIG.

  • Anonymous

    That’s right, the obvious easy ones. A person has the right to control their own body since the Constitution strictly limited government powers; but you can’t have a gun even though the Constitution tells us that the First Amendment (the freedom of conscience) is not worth much without the Second. Hell, we can’t even speak up with passion at public meetings and we STILL have our guns. What do you think will happen to free speech when we don’t have any guns? Well, the Dems have a blind spot on this sort of thing.
    Of course those on the Right have their own blind spots. The government has no right to control a citizen’s body, but in the case of women there is an exception. What? And these people say this in the same breath with loud praises for the U. S. Constitution! Jesus!
    No, this nonsense cuts both ways. JWC

  • Anonymous

    Yes, they are fudging. Why? That is the question. JWC

  • Stuart Boyle

    To a large extent I agree. There are a few voices out there such as Senator Warren that are trying to change things.

  • Anonymous

    Yes, it is lying in the context of claiming to be tellers of the truth. But it is a strange truth that all mixed up with the grey middle. There is a time for decision–but this nonsense just puts that time off a little further. We don’t want to upset the masses too much do we? JWC

  • Anonymous

    Hitler and Mussolini have finally won WWII.

    They must be smiling from ear to ear.

    Fascism is alive and well in the Military/Terror Industrial Complex States of Amerika.

  • M Dayne

    The nuance that I had hoped to draw attention to, was the ease at which Mr. Snowden ended up in protective custody in Moscow. It is quite possible that this was orchestrated by the Deep State to sequester Snowden from the press and further questions. As for dog eat dog, what I see in Washington is collusion for cash. Except for Tea Party nut jobs most every member of government is about money first. This is endemic and pervasive and more about human nature than politics. The power, the money, the temptation is too much.

  • Anonymous

    Everybody wanted to come to the party. My point is that the mandate gave **everybody** permission to do so. Most of these actors weren’t interested in employing their better judgment or discipline. Whoever did whatever, there was a staggering crisis we’ve called the Great Recession. For millions of people, there is still a recession.

  • Ted

    I believe you are correct, However, if what we have is fascism, then it is an American version of fascism. “Italian Fascism involved a corporatist political system in which economy was collectively managed by employers, workers and state officials by formal mechanisms at national level.” (Princeton)

    The American version of fascism has done away with the workers and consolidated power in the hands of the business and governmental elite. In other words, we have beat Mussolini at his own game.

    How’s that for American exceptionalism?

  • Anonymous

    Yes it will be hard and easy at the same time–as easy as it is to choose between two fake parties each of whom think the common good belongs to them exclusively. JWC

  • Anonymous

    Your poorly nuanced idea is ok, but still behind the deeper spiritual issue of whether character is a real possibility and thus if we can find persons of character to represent us.
    As for the “Tea Party nut jobs” there are many there who you will at some point need to find a constitutionally based solidarity with. For if we don’t and won’t then we will deserve what we get. Our neighbors on the other side have been fooled just as we have on our side–whatever side that is.
    As for our “reps,” invite them all home for a little come-to-Jesus party that they will not likely forget. And don’t forget to bring some tar and feathers along to compliment the wine. JWC

  • Anonymous

    Actually there are a lot more like Petraeus and one doesn’t need Lofgren (Moyers or any other so-called “experts”) to confirm anything for us. To find the legions of those who are not heroes just make a list, a very very long list, of those who do not speak up. In a time of crisis, to go along just to get along is the work of a coward.
    This is why we should stay away from an new constitutional convention like the plague–who would we find who had character enough to trust sending? We need to use the one we have as opposed to paving billion dollar roads around it, eh? JWC

  • Anonymous

    Yes but Hedges does not hedge his language like Moyers does. He is the sort of fellow who might stand at the barricades with you. Moyers will be back stage working out a compromise with those who murdered Kennedy. JWC

  • Anonymous

    And you need to explain “some media.” If you count Moyers’ outlets you are counting for the most part those who will go just so far and no further, i.e., those who will not be standing with you at the barricades. The main stream say what they must, and no more; their journalism is just a seeming and thus it is the opposite of a free and vigorous press. JWC

  • Anonymous

    There are various words for it: power, money, and even “career,” which Jesus simply referred to poetically as “bread.” It is amazing what men and women without spine will do for something as stupid as a benefits package. And didn’t the Roman elites use “bread and circus” to the full?

  • Anonymous

    Let’s hope not but she might turn out to be a one trick pony. JWC

  • Anonymous

    Squared but not balanced by the judgment of informed voters. JWC

  • Anonymous

    You’ll find out soon enough. JWC

  • Anonymous

    Yes it is a conspiracy and we have laws against such. But the deep state has built in protections. The justice systems are also parts of the octopus and thus the laws are only for us and not for the elites. Someone said recently: if the elites steal from you they get a bonus; if you steal from them you go to jail. Meanwhile the Constitution is dying of atrophy, dying from lack of use. JWC

  • Anonymous

    Coward is a fitting word for these people.

  • Terre Gates

    He does in his book, The Party is Over

  • Robert

    He also tried to blame libertarians for perpetual war and a monopoly on intellectual property and lost me on that whole point after Bill asks him, “What is it?”

    It is Corporate Statism, not libertarianism.

  • T Church

    Your barricade against an imaginary military threat is useless. *IF* the government decided to attack your barricade with their arsenal your guns would be as useless as sticks.

    The government doesn’t attack with weapons. The deep government as Moyers talks about attacks financially. Guns are useless against that.

  • NoInfo ToShare

    The truly disconcerting part is that even our U.S. Supreme Court are in on this. We are now officially a Corporatocracy—not a Democracy.

  • Anonymous

    That’s true, Stuart. And mostly, they still are.
    Obama immediately put Wall Street in charge of his economic team, in the person of Geithner & Summers, and gave the banks trillions without requiring them to pay back the homeowners they robbed – to say nothing of prosecuting them for their crimes.
    That’s why we need to vote for a third, left party and, even more important, build new union and social movements.

  • Edward98

    We can’t only blame the politicians and the corporations, the people bare responsibility in what has happened to America. We have been sleeping.

  • Edward98


  • fedupwithpoliticians

    The secrecy was blown when:
    1. Jim Jubak reported that 90 % of the “quantitative easing” was going over seas or into “foreign currency trades”.
    2. David Wessel reported that the U.S. spends more on our military than the next 17 nations combined
    3. Last spring independent journalists reported a “secret off shore economy ($33 trillion)” equivalent to the size of the U.S. and Japanese economies combined.
    4. The CBO reported that 95% of the gains go to the 1%.
    5. Druckenmiller (hedge fund manager) admitted that “quantitative easing” had accomplished the greatest transfer of wealth from the poor and middle class to the 1% in American history. I hear that the fed has spent $4 trillion since 2011. He further went on to say something like, “This is good for me but I am concerned that it is not good for the country”.

    6. The department of labor published a document showing that at least 20 % of the economy was lost as manufacturing jobs went over seas. The money must have been shifted into Wall Street and military spending to hide the fact that the economy as we once knew it has been gutted. That is the “symbiotic” relationship. Wall Street gets to make money by helping the Congress hide the failure of their “free trade” policies.
    7. The U.S. debt has risen from 32 % of GDP in 1980 to more than 100% of GDP in 2014 while the 1% were enriched. These bad social/economic/political cycles have happened before.

    But, to each of those published revelations in the last few years, there was no adverse reaction or out cry from a “misdirected public” in Lofgren’s words. Misdirected means deceived. I work with educated people that denied or didn’t want to hear that these events were happening.

  • Stuart Boyle

    The author of this Forbes article is from a conservative think tank. The quote of Frank’s doesn’t make sense. No one forced people to buy homes rather than rent. It’s a false premise that CRA forced banks to make bad loans. There are credit worthy customers in “underserved communities”. Remember that most mortgages are originated by mortgage companies that are not subject to the CRA regulations.

  • Edward98

    Think about this. The merger between Comcast and Time Warner. Comcast has 100+ lobbyists in DC. Think the deck’s not stacked against the people?

  • Edward98

    Well, many of us have been asleep for years. We have built this society and allowed it to happen. It may take a revolution to change it.

  • Edward98

    I agree. The thing about seeing it in the media though, is we are not seeing it in the mainstream media.

  • Edward98

    MSM owned by the Corporations who are part of this.

  • Edward98

    Yeah, that civil war thing, may be headed that way.

  • Anonymous

    There you go. JWC

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  • Anonymous

    Martin Armstrong has been saying the same things for decades.

    The solution is to: make it illegal for politicians to borrow money. Stop all payments on the bonds/debt and issue local spending credits.

    Ban income tax and property tax, replacing them with just consumption taxes, thereby letting wealth producers decide where to direct the capital first. Studies show government would get more month this way.

    Strict term limits for all politicians to stop corruption and them passing laws favoring themselves over taxpayers.

    None of this will likely happen though, until the whole system crashes and burns in his view.

    read more at armstrongeconomics dot com

  • Anonymous

    Term limits won’t stop corruption. Moneyed interests invest in campaigns and get returns in the form of subsidies tax breaks and lax regulation/enforcement. You think these moneyed interests can’t dig up a new puppet when the old puppet’s term is up? gimme a break

  • Anonymous

    Yeah a lot of people are asleep. You surprised? This whole system is basically handing out chamomile tea and calling it coffee

  • Anonymous

    We apparently have different perspectives on this. I live in a large metro area brought to its knees by housing foreclosures and failed banks. It is obvious this happened to other cities, too, by the enormity of the bubble and the ensuing recession.

    Maybe banks proceeded with loans they realized they should not be making – the case in my city – because they feared the heavy hand of The Government. As for Frank’s nonsensical quotes, I can’t comment on those. In about the same time frame I heard him on NPR, and he was doing a mea culpea. Conservative and liberal commentators at the time pointed to his “leadership” in pushing through reforms to ensure at-risk (underserved is your euphemism) buyers could get loans.

  • Anonymous

    IRS Scandal – not. Benghazi – nope. Fast & Furious – nada. And, you really should learn about communism through history. Really, quite a laughable collection of nonsense. Of course both parties are to blame, but to then argue one is better than the other using right-wing talking points only serves to reveal a deeper problem – lack of erudition.

  • Anonymous

    LOL Ed Shenk. Capitalism is functioning exactly as it is intended to function. ‘Crony capitalism’ is an organic outcome of the model. Clearly. Also, to suggest that markets are ‘free’ truly takes effort. It is the very companies who argue for ‘free markets’ who seek to impede free-markets. Enter all this nonsense about needing less regulation. And, America ‘what it is today’ has NOTHING to do with charitable giving by our plutocratic overlords and everything to do with the blood, sweat, and toil of those who built this country. If you make an effort to reflect upon the natural outcomes of capitalism you will come to realize it’s functioning perfectly…for some. Lastly, our current iteration of capitalism is garbage.

  • Trish House

    There is a vital undercut to all this that will create a built in homeland security for the common people. We must insist that it is the birthright of each one of us to a free and fair share of the land and its resources that each of us needs for our survival. These must be made to be human rights, not privileges doled out by the wealthy with power.

    Our People need a steady platform from which to express their power and ideas. And while we depend on corp/gov for jobs and income to make our survival we are subject to their whims and dictates. How often do we hear an official justify bad actions with the words “I’m just doing my job.” We are held in thrall to the superpowers by our habit of insisting that they provide jobs for us. In the meantime they laugh up their sleeves at us knowing full well that if we object to their depleted uranium weapons for use on other people’s lands, or if we object to their genetically modified seeds that can change the DNA of any species if consumed, or if we object to their commands to brutalize peaceful protesters we can lose our jobs in a heartbeat and soon find ourselves living in our cars or under bridges with our children. It is too much power to put into the hands of those with no better motive than to take every ounce of the wealth that we create through our work and unfairly claim it as theirs.

    Free land = free people. Free People = Power. We can take back our moral integrity as Americans by creating for ourselves that safe base from which we can securely shun the government, the corporations, the military – which is mostly made up of US – if they fail to act with conscience about the well being of the lives and environment their actions affect. Our social and economic systems can only work if they are constrained by the People to do no harm. If the People are confident that they are safe in their basic needs they will have the power necessary to fix what is wrong with our country. Free land = free people. Free people make good decisions. We owe it to ourselves and to future generations to end the slavery systems that bind us and steal our freedom and power.

  • Trish House

    Our total dedication to jobs as our means of survival and our continued belief that speaking to our political/gov “representatives” have within them the well-being of the working people of America is a mental illness implanted by centuries of careful design by the class that wants to own our lives to support their extreme self indulgence. Here is a quote from his book The Invention of Capitalism by Prof. Michael Perelman “Extramarket forces of all sorts would become unnecessary, since the market itself would ensure that the working class remained in a continual state of deprivation. Patrick Colquhoun (1815, 110), a London police magistrate noted:

    “Poverty is that state and condition in society where the individual has no surplus labour in store, or , in other words, no property or means of subsistence but what is derived from the constant exercise of industry in the various occupations of life. Poverty is therefore a most neccessary and indispensable ingredient in society, without which nations and communities could not exist in a state of civilization. It is The lot of man. It is the source of wealth, since without poverty there could be no labour, there could be no riches, no refinement, no comfort, and no benefit to those who may be possessed of wealth.”

  • Trish House

    By their design we all have a vested interest in the status quo. We demand their jobs, handing over to them the lion’s share of the profits of our work while pressed to the wall financially so that if we protest we are in a position to lose every benefit we have managed to hang on to despite the rock grinder conveyor belt of the corporate/government/industrial profit machinery.

    Our way free of this is to get ourselves in a position of safety and it requires the courage and discipline of real warriors to get us there. Our first act to unplug the life-support of the slave system is to call a debt jubilee and free ourselves from any financial obligation to and support of those that control us through debt. Our next step is to insist that it is the birthright and the human right of each one of us to a free and fair share of the land and its resources so we are secure enough to create a steady platform from which to dismantle the life-support system that is truly killing us. From that safe place the People can act – without it we will continue to slowly cook like the frogs in a pot that refuse to leave the comfort of our environment until we die of it.

  • Trish House

    Something our “holy” founding fathers failed to add to the Constitution was the decree that only free land and resources = free people. Here is a quote from Gouverneur Morris who helped frame it The port of Boston has been shut up. These sheep, simple as they are, cannot be gulled as heretofore. In short, there is no ruling them; and now, to leave the metaphor, the heads of the mobility grow dangerous to the gentry, and how to keep them down is the question. While they correspond with the other colonies, call and dismiss popular assemblies, make resolves to bind the consciences of the rest of mankind, bully poor printers, and exert with full force all their other tribunitial powers, it is impossible to curb them. [8]

    [ ] In short, they fairly contended about the future forms of our government, whether it should be founded upon Aristocratic or Democratic principles. [10]

    I stood in the balcony, and on my right hand were ranged all the people of property, with some few poor dependants, and on the other all the tradesmen, &c., who thought it worth their while to leave daily labor for the good of the country. The spirit of the English Constitution has yet a little influence left, and but a little. The remains of it, however, will give the wealthy people a superiority this time, but would they secure it, they must banish all schoolmasters, and confine all knowledge to themselves. This cannot be. The mob begin to think and to reason. [11]Poor reptiles! it is with them a vernal morning, they are struggling to cast off their winter’s slough, they bask in the sunshine, and ere noon they will bite, depend upon it. The gentry begin to fear this. [12] Their committee will be appointed, they will deceive the people, and again forfeit a share of their confidence. And if these instances of what with one side is policy, with the other perfidy, shall continue to increase, and become more frequent, farewell aristocracy. [13] I see, and I see it with fear and trembling, that if the disputes with Britain continue, we shall be under the worst of all possible dominions. We shall be under the domination of a riotous mob.”

  • Trish House

    The book The Invention of Capitalism by Prof. Michael Perelman is a roadmap of exactly how this mess was created and what life was like for people before it. To win this I think we must return to the philosophy that each member of our species must have access to a share of land and natural resources in order to live. We must grant each other the right to a free and fair share of these if we want to create a kind of homeland security that is by and for the people. Our social and economic systems can then be built upon the guaranteed security of every one of us. Free land = free people.

  • Trish House

    At birth we’re invited to travel on Space Ship Earth with a life-time ticket. It’s true for each of us. How is it that some people have hoarded all the seats and then artificially force most of us to pay them for what is rightly ours – a seat for our life time journey? How’s it possible that most of us must fight each other for the means to pay the few for use of a seat? The hoarders call this “mortgages” and pretend it cost THEM something to get those extra seats, charging us interest to extort more so we spend our whole journey on Earth stressfully working to pay them for what is OUR seat from the beginning! Some don’t make it in that game and are forced to spend their whole lives walking the aisles and unpleasantly sleeping in the bathrooms. Some take drugs to ease the terrible stress of the environment, others resort to crime so they can bear the journey.

    Shouldn’t we all just claim our seats and tell the bullies that their game is over? Shouldn’t we all have the proud right to claim our place on Space Ship Earth and to be welcomed here freely, and even joyfully, by the other passengers on our journey?

    Here’s YOUR ticket, YOUR seat – I give them to you freely, and I gladly welcome you aboard as a fully empowered and honored fellow on this journey of life. Viva la Space Ship! Viva YOU. ❤

  • Tim Taylor

    I love you like a brother, Bill, and you were well ahead of your time in your PBS documentary three decades ago about the national security state. But, I’m glad you are awakening to the evils of capitalism. Capitalism is a class-based system of control that was created by European feudal states including the British Empire. It is inconsistent with democracy.

    Corporations can only exist in perpetuity through the application of state violence. So, this is the outcome of corporate capitalism. Without the application of state violence, it will fail. Permanently. This isn’t a great epiphany that corporations and the state are intertwined in their application of violence needed to enslave the rest of us to a system of continuous rent extraction or profit. This is the foundational element of the corporate state. In 1776 it was the king’s great trading and land corporations that ruled the world. They existed in perpetuity for one reason. To extract endless rent or wealth from the rest of the world. This is the American model of today. Frankly, this is the only way capitalism can survive. The crises in capitalism in the past can always be explained through an understanding of state violence.

    But, now the global corporate capitalist system has looted everything. There is nothing left to loot. They want it to be Africa but it can’t happen fast enough. Capitalism is dying. Not just in the U.S. but everywhere. That is what this crisis is about. It isn’t about housing or mortgage-backed securities. Capitalism is dying as communism did. And, for the same reasons. They were dumbed-down systems of forced work that enriched the state and the aristocracy. This system only exists through the application of state violence.

    This isn’t democratic economics. It never has been. Private, class-based, profit-driven capital has never served the needs of democracy or community or society. To the contrary, private capital has destroyed all three of them.

  • Rosalie

    To jwclark

    I’m from an enormously empathetic anti vietnam war culture . We grew up seeing our adolescent ideals being rendered useless with politicians reverting to extremly conservative draconian laws .
    There’s not enough respect for the way history and culture is taught in schools abroad . For years American students marched against American imperialism, just as more progressive Brit students marched against the British military presence in Northern Ireland in the mid 1970’s . Blessed are the pacifists like Martin McGuiness and Gerry Adams!

    Travel and /or working outside the US is a good iniatative to learn comparative history and culture . Obviously I don’t think isolationists want to continue illegal and immoral wars; Americans should reduce the perception that we need more military industrial complexes abroad . We need more UN keepers of ecumenical sanity instead of ersatz counter intuitive “elites ” .

    What dishonesty the elites exclusivists show . In declassifying all sorts of documents they have removed from the middle class and the working class opportunities all of us once had with their eager embracing of arbitrary substitutions and their swap derivatives .

  • Anonymous

    All of this is fine Rosalie, but you have not referred to one thing that Lofgren said that relates to anything you are saying. Please go back and view the interview again and hook your points to that in a strict way. Also, you need to take the time to edit your own writing so that it is in the true spirit of real communication with others. Why? Because as communication your comments have simply failed. Take the time to clarify to yourself what you want to say, and then say what you mean. All of that takes time and human care, that is all. JWC

  • Anonymous

    ‘beenwiser’…. What I posted is largely economist Martin Armstrong’s ideas, he warned the Reagan admin. 3 decades ago that there was going to be a debt crisis from compounding interest (70% of the debt is from compounding interest), well here we are not, the debt is destroying western civilization.

    The answer to the elections as well as term limits is to have the taxpayers pay for all elections, no private money allowed.

    Here is Armstrong’s list of what should be done but won’t be until the whole system crashes and burns. In reply to the other person about tax, rich people spend more money on everything, cars, houses, vacations, food, clothes, therefore if there is just a consumption tax (poor people could even be excluded from it) the rich would pay more, Armstrong’s studies have shown the government would actually get more money this way and it would allow the capital to be put to work by those who know how to create wealth and jobs before government grabs it.

    Armstrong’s debt solution:

    have received a letter from one member of the House of Finance
    Committee asking to please submit suggestions. Please forward this to
    politicians everywhere.

    1) We freeze all National Debt

    2) We issue coupons whereby the debt will be redeemed for local currency to be invested in the domestic economy debt or equity.

    3) Each Nation then
    establishes its own currency pegged to the Euro. The US debt is swapped
    to coupons that may be spent domestically.

    4) All direct
    PROPERTY TAX. All local government funds itself by Retail Sales Tax.

    5) Federal
    Government prints the cash needed instead of accumulative deficit each
    year as a % of GDP. Add up interest paid 1986-2006, the US debt other
    than interest would have been less than $300 billion. Printing if
    controlled will not be a fiat nor hyper inflation. We need a steady
    growth in money supply to expand and keep up with population.

    These are basic
    cornerstones required to stop the cycle of economic implosion.

    If we do not act,
    civil unrest will explode. The current choice is Default or Higher Taxes
    and Civil Unrest. Property taxes have jumped and collections are up
    over 40% in all major states passing 50% in Nevada, Wyoming, Kansas,
    Michigan, Louisiana, Virginia, Florida and Vermont, as well as Hawaii
    between 2001 -2007. Now taxes are rising because of foreclosures that
    suspend tax revenue.

    I have done my best
    to try to help. I have clearly paid the price. As Europe weakens, The
    Dollar, Dow and Gold would Rise. When the debt concerns then turn to the
    US, the Dollar will get hit only then.

    Someone has to step
    forward to save us or we may be doomed. It’s time to wake up for this is
    the future of our children and their children at stake.

    All The Best

    Martin A. Armstrong

    March 9th, 2010
    see more at armstrongeconomics dot com

  • Anonymous

    I’m not sure I was clear on your meaning on the first read. I think Allen’s “some media” means other than main stream media but I would like to hear that from him. Meanwhile, who are Moyers’ sponsors and why is he so middle of the road in his language. On his face we always see a feigned surprise and deep concern but we do not hear real outrage and in this interview there are no solutions asked for or offered–that we see at least. Why is that and what does it say about Moyer’s commitment to the truth. Another glaring example is his attack upon those who are concerned to protect the Second Amendment. These men are his neighbors and share solidarity with him on may many issues! Why is he so willing to malign them instead of forging a relationship on things they do agree on–and those are several and critical. Basically, he writes a dozen articles critical of the heavy hand of bog government and then in the next article he seems to want to insure that that same big government is the only entity to have guns. That is a complete disconnect, logically. So, I don’t get it; I don’t trust it; and I want Moyers to answer it. The 2nd Amendment is a political amendment. It is not primarily about defending your house or your person but defending the republic against tyranny–the very thing that Moyers is outlining on a daily basis–though with muted language that is ill timed for our current circumstances, circumstances that obviously he knows very well. I want an answer to this, and have asked numerous times in these forums, but apparently Moyers does not think of himself as my neighbor. If he did he would answer this simple question: why the disconnect? I might suggest here that he does not answer because he can not answer without involving himself in fallacious nonsense–and that he is smart enough to not do. In the meantime he does damage to the historic and metaphysical truth that the Founders laid out for us in fine English, and harming a lot of people who do not think things through for themselves and who therefore trust him too much. That is my view but apparently I am a voice crying out in the wilderness as far as Moyers is concerned. It’s sad too because otherwise we might share many things in common and be real comrades. But then the man of principle is “always saying hello, and goodby.” JWC

  • Thirdcloud

    Trish, your idea is a good reflection of what is lacking in society. Greed has become a value trait–embrace by the religious right too often. I don’t believe in a state run economy but see the absolute necessity of demanding social responsibility of corporations who are permitted into our marketplace. Getting money out of politics so that our elected government reflects the “public will” is the first step in walking back toward opportunity.

  • Trish House

    So, with what do we replace them?

  • Anonymous

    And one more thing; when I say the 2nd Amendment is a political principle and not primarily about personal defense, I do not mean that it is not also about personal defense; it is. But what I want to make clear is that the universal principle is that we do not place the secondary above the primary (Plato, Confucius, etc.) and the valid concern of many for the protection of our children pales before the primary concern which is not personal safety–which incidentally they continue to use as an excuse to take away our civil rights– but with the health and preservation of the Republic. For example, in the t.v. forums where you here the Second “discussed” no one asks or addresses the question: what will the position of our children be when we live in a formal authoritarian state where conscience itself is criminalized and they are not allowed to say what they think? Can you imagine the damage this might do to human potential? Do you realize that the Founders put the Second after the First Amendment to prop it up because depending upon consent as it does it is essentially weak. Obviously the Founders knew this both from the study of history and from their own experience with the English (their own) king! Words had no effect upon the bulwarks of the authoritarian mind set–which we have again today all around us in big government, eh?
    But no one is asking this question in the official media, are they? Instead they just pull on the heart strings of sentimental people–making them weaker instead of stronger in the process at the same time that they weaken the Republic.
    In the end, is it even reasonable to risk the integrity of our free republic to protect hypothetical children from hypothetical assassins? No, indeed, it is not because that is to place the secondary before the primary, “the branches before the roots!” (Confucius)
    So, let the Second Amendment protect the First and the Republic itself. Then let a healthy republic do what it can to protect all that it harbors, including the children. In a republic all children are sovereign in potentiation. In an authoritarian regime, they are just property, slaves. And, really, how difficult is that to understand. And so, clearly, in this debate reason has been set aside by those who seek to control. And don’t forget this: even though we still have a Constitution it is clear from the treatment of Snowden and Manning and others that conscience has already become criminalized. I wonder if readers, if there are any, are aware of the immensity of this? JWC

  • Trish House

    I agree, but it is so difficult for folks to demand social responsibility of corporations when their survival is so easily threatened by their bosses. How many times have we read of those, like Snowden, with a social conscience being quickly thrown under the bus for speaking out? The backlash of punishment is fierce. That is why I think our freedom rests on our free access to land and resources as our means of survival. Large central government under every banner seems always to be usurped by the sociopaths who will do things the rest of us would never consider in order to gain and hold onto their power. Our culture is steeped in the idea of exploitation as a means of getting what we want. It is bred into us from the first moment we start our education; we are trained to compete with each other, to mock the loser, to praise ourselves for acquiring more and hoarding it, then charging others for the privilege of using what should be their’s by birthright.

  • Trish House

    “Well rounded souls of the Founders!” You make me laugh! They denied the right to vote of everyone but the rich. Many kept slaves, George Washington is still the richest president we’ve ever had because he had the first shovel in the wealth of a country which was owned by People whom he ordered slaughtered so he and his friends could control it. They could have embraced the culture of the natives whose impulse was to share land and resources so everyone had a chance to live in comfort. Had we done that we, like they, could have lived in a culture of personal freedom, environmental harmony, with no banks, no mortgages, no debt, no prisons and very little crime. It wasn’t perfect but it was heaven compared to the hell that we are confronted with today. We can save what is right about our social contract, the Constitution, but we should add to it the right to every person to a share of the land and resources they need to be self sustaining. It’s that simple.

  • J.G. Sandom

    We have become almost as much a plutocracy as our former Cold War nemesis, Russia. Tech, Big Oil and Wall Street oligarchs, combined with the military-industrial complex (which Eisenhower tried to warn us against) collude (in spirit, if not in actual boardrooms) to keep the people’s power in check via libertarian deregulation, union-busting, Citizens United (and other activist SCOTUS rulings), privatization of the Intelligence Community (IC), the opiate of digital media that pushes the idolatry of money & all things celebrity to distract us, and our collective fear of terrorism (hence our perpetual war footing). This is what my forthcoming novel, 404, is all about—not just how IP tech is invading our lives, but how this invasion is a metaphor for the larger invasion. (HAL2, in my book, IS what Mike Lofgren calls the Deep State.) Wake up, America! Our country is being stolen from us in plain sight. Thank you Bill Moyers, and thank you Mike Lofgren for helping to alert the American public. You are 21st century Paul Reveres! Al Qaeda is less of a threat to America because of some future possible terrorist threat, and more because the collective American fear it engenders helps the Deep State sink its claws more effectively into our national flesh.

  • Tim Taylor

    That’s actually quite easy. There are well too many solutions to write on here. I could write on forever but it certainly is not rocket science. It’s not like this system exists because there are no other alternatives. The political economy of the colonies in 1776 was not corporate capitalism. That only arrived at our shores courtesy of Alexander Hamilton after we become a nation. He was the reason why private banking, central banks and corporate capitalism – manifestations of violent European feudal state that Americans emigrated from to be free – became ingrained in our culture. This after we had just fought a war to rid ourselves of the corporate state.

    Two starting points for your review might be Friedrich List’s ‘The National System of Political Economy’ and Thorstein Veblen’s ‘The Theory of the Leisure Class’. List and Veblen used appreciated American ideals in rejection of class-based corporate capitalism and the private, class-based profit motive that hijacks democracy. There are thousands of books on this topic that have been written over hundreds of years.

    Only when we appreciate how ignorant our society has become on the topic of what is possible, can we appreciate what is achievable beyond the wage slavery of our class-based, anti-democratic, capitalist masters.

    But, then, it doesn’t really matter whether we educate ourselves or not. This system is in the midst of terminal failure.

  • Tim Taylor

    Thomas Jefferson wanted to give every citizen their own land to build their existence on. The government still can give every American citizen a home as their birthright privilege for being free. It’s all a ruse. It’s refreshing to read a remark from someone who sees through the violence that enslaves us into a system of rent extraction.

  • Thirdcloud

    Trish, there are sociaopaths at the other end of that spectrum too. You might consider reading the link I provided in my post. Within that link you’ll find several others–most notably a discussion with David Simon about Marx and unchecked capitalism.

  • Trish House

    – Our government holds in trust for us nearly 30% of our land this is equivalent to 1,115,344 square miles and is equal to the combined land masses of Great Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Poland, Greece, New Zealand, Ireland, Bahrain, Hong Kong, Liechtenstein, the Cayman Islands, Anguilla, and Bermuda.

    Combined these countries support populations of 383,502,896 people which is 66,533,896 MORE PEOPLE THAN THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF THE UNITED STATES but in the 1/3 of our land mass the U.S. government controls.

    Yet the poverty rate in the U.S. is higher than ever with these stats available – “Higher recent rates of unemployment mean the lifetime risk of experiencing economic insecurity now runs even higher: 79%, or 4 in 5 adults, by the time they turn 60.

    By race, nonwhites still have a higher risk of being economically insecure, at 90 percent. But compared with the official poverty rate, some of the biggest jumps under the newer measure are among whites, with more than 76% enduring periods of joblessness, life on welfare or near-poverty.

    By 2030, based on the current trend of widening income inequality, close to 85% of all working-age adults in the U.S. will experience bouts of economic insecurity.” From USA Today

  • Trish House

    Certainly there are sociopaths in every class – they just cause more harm when they also hold positions of power over more of us. Thanks, I’ll check out your link.

  • Tim Taylor

    Trends never last forever. ie This system will collapse well before 2030 projections. We don’t need to tap our federal and state lands for more development of capitalist sprawl. We have all of the land in development we will ever need. All of the people in the world fit into Rhode Island. There is more mass of termites in the world than humanity. We simply need to reapportion what has been stolen by corporations and predators. No corporation should ever own any land. And the people should never own more than they can personally use.

  • Rebecca Samuels

    The people are uninformed or misled for the most part. How do we empower the people?

  • Anonymous

    Actually, I find this comment almost unintelligible. JWC

  • Trish House

    Right on. In the 50s Americans were using 50% of the world’s resources; today it is 25% yet we are merely 4.6% of the world’s population so we certainly have a surplus of resources. Today I read a UN report that said the best way to feed the world is through local organic gardens. Even the cities could be transformed into prolific food production centers. What I envision is a vast landscape of free, self-sustaining eco villages from one coast to the next with extra housing for visiting guests and free energy transportation for all making it possible for us to travel freely anywhere in the world to participate in study groups on every imaginable subject, and activity, and art form that interests us because most jobs will be obsolete and our days will be filled with things that interest us, that please us, and that benefit our survival.

  • Fed Up

    If you think that there’s nothing to the IRS scandal, Benghazi, Fast & Furious, etc – you haven’t looked at the facts of them. Then again, ignorance is bliss.

    I’ve probably studied communism more over the last year than you have in your entire life. I know VERY well what it is and can see the beginnings of it a mile away.

    Keep trying though.

  • Tim Taylor

    Sign me up!

  • Anonymous

    But these corporations and state houses all display “Old Glory” within and about them. They must be honorable institutions run by patriotic, honorable men.

  • Anonymous

    So Lofgren’s our “Christopher Tietjens”/ the Tory “Accountant” in BBC’s EXCELLENT production of Ford Madox Ford’s WWI era “Parades End” (?) Is this not our own Criminal, Imperial Collapse? Good that we also have Moyers, Lofgren and “Tietjens”, but how many others are concerned, and/or “implicated” in this “Fall of the Amerikan Empire? “Custer Died For Our Sins!” (too…)

  • Anonymous

    sounds like Barry Aka Obama

  • I. Spoke Umbra

    You have a 1 track mind, and it is narrow. Although you could ascribe this to any CEO or leader, I’m characterizing an agency of the government with 10s of thousands of people sharing the same trait.

  • Gloria Beckley

    The new world order will be corporations acting as the global shadow government. Unknown, unelected, and untouchable.

  • papernpaste

    We have a responsibility as citizens, the electorate, to rid ourselves of this absolute tyrannical maniacal creation. We ALLOWED it to be created in our ignorance and complacency.
    The NSA is one of 175 known “spy” ops that are going on, daily in the name of “national security.”
    I realize that, having a five decade (or more) failed foreign policy that is run by both the Industrial Military Complex and “business interests,” has created enemies that would love to see the United States decimated. Now we do need some sort of Government entity to keep a watch on threats, both foreign and domestic. But, we do NOT deserve nor want the over-reach that BOTH PARTIES, by either their ignorance or design, have sanctioned.
    We live in a country that was designed to protect AGAINST this type of situation.
    It is our moral and Constitutional responsibility to remove every last career politician that has sold our heritage to the profit takers. Perhaps there even needs to be a “new beginning, BEFORE this ship sinks and takes everyone to the depths of despair. This would not be an easy task. The “preservers and protectors” are not working for the citizenry any longer. The powers that be have even militarized the police force.
    I don’t have the intelligence to organize what needs to be done, but I do firmly believe that it needs to be done.
    With the Lame Street Media as the mouthpiece of the “regime” and “electronic voting” that can be corrupted (and probably IS), it will be difficult for a “grass roots take-back” of what the Founding Fathers designed.
    Help us all.

  • papernpaste

    “Our country is being stolen from us in plain sight.” It has already happened. The obvious question, now, is: Can we vote ourselves OUT of this mess. I doubt it. The regime is flush with our money. What do we do, now? Can Americans mobilize and march on D.C., every day, until changes start to take place? I doubt that, too.

  • papernpaste

    It’s high time for a revolution and we are all under the watchful eye of the W.W. Order. But Americans have always been resourseful. There IS a web sight calling for a march and it has something to do with “American Spring.” People need to mobilize, by the millions and OUT these profiteers and take back our country.

  • papernpaste

    With whatever it takes!

  • Major

    Thugs behind guns. Secret government is, by definition, a criminal enterprise. The means used, describe the ends.

  • Anonymous

    #2 is definitely you rainman.

  • Anonymous

    Consumption taxes punish the 99% and favor the rich. That is just fact. Did you channel Ayn L Rand or some Libertarian?

  • Anonymous

    No Taxes? No central government etc.
    There is a reason for estate taxes for example.
    Without them the rich only get more powerful generation after generation.
    The libertarian Austrian School nonsense is a worse delusion than capitalism. Stop listening to Beck and Armstrong.
    And how about that time Armstrong spent in prison for fraud? He defrauded folks out of at least 600+ million then hid millions from the court and went to jail for 7 years until he gave up the coin.

  • Anonymous

    Talis: I did not say no central government or taxes.

    I said no income taxes which came along about the same time as communism. The idea that the government has the right to spend your hard earned money before you do, before those who create wealth can spend is, only to be wasted into government’s debt hole (70% of the debt is from compounding interest).

    The system is broken, look at France who Marx learned from, they are on the verge of going bankrupt, families are leaving France in large numbers now because the socialists are grabbing huge chunks of tax and destroying the economy.

    It is because of fools like you that Armstrong’s prediction that the whole system is going to crash and burn will happen, because in your view government can do no wrong, they can just keep taking more and more of taxpayers money to feed to their bloated bureaucracy and push the US debt into the 20 trillion dollar range. Wake up, the system is broken, the trees do not grow to the sky, the politicians and their owners the banksters have looted the treasury, by 2016 Americans will be rioting in the streets when they realize there are no pensions.

    As for Armstrong’s alleged theft, if he took 600 million dollars then they did HSBC who bought Republic Bank pay the Japanese money back? Could it be that it was Republic bank employees that were trading illegally in Armstrong’s accounts? Armstrong was in prison for 7 years on contempt for not handing over some valuables, they were trying to make him hand over assets before he even had his trial, they also took away all his lawyers money, so he had to defend himself, totally corrupt, oh but all that’s good in your book isn’t it, since the government can do no wrong.

  • Trish House

    I think the only benefit of the march will be to reinforce for ourselves that millions of us agree that this shit’s got to change. Talking to the Powers that Be is like talking to the hand; it answers nothing.

  • Trish House

    Not difficult for a grass roots takeback at all. Just declare a debt jubilee, declare it a human right that each of us owns a free and fair share of the land and its resources that can NEVER be taken away from us and then SHUN the existing system and build a new one. As long as we keep accepting the corporate jobs for our survival we will continue to feed their beasts. Free land = free people. Free people = power!

  • Anonymous

    You keep bringing up Armstrong the man who defrauded people of close to a billion dollars and who is a libertarian.
    Wonder why I think you hate a strong federal government.

  • Anonymous

    The US government is 17 Trillion dollars in debt, that is hardly a strong government. As Armstrong says, government is and always has been the enemy of the people, they grab away hard earned money and give it to themselves, their buddies and people they think they can bribe with other people’s money. The marxist inspired system of borrowing huge amounts of money with no intention of ever paying anything back is on its last legs, when the bond market crashes because there are no more bidders (suckers that believe politicians lies) American society will break down and go into anarchy (the 47% that gets a government check will no longer get one). We are headed for a very difficult time that could even lead to civil war, unfortunately the poor at the bottom will be hurt the most. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

  • Anonymous

    Blah blah blah. I dont care about the 17 trillion. It is not scary nor is it going to harm us.

  • Anonymous

    You have no idea how much money 17 trillion is. Armstrong predicted this unfolding debt crisis over 3 decades ago when he warned the Reagan administration that compounding interest on the debt (when it was only 1 trillion) would create a crisis down the road.

    Eventually the debt will take all taxes just to service the interest, it is like a cancer on the nations.

    The banksters and the politicians have ruined the broth. You can scoff if you want to but Armstrong has a long history of being right, as he was in 1989 when he predicted in a London lecture that the Soviet Union was going to collapse, that is when the CIA knocked on Armstrong’s door and wanted a copy of his pi cycle artificial intelligence computer. Armstrong was not named Armerica’s Top Economist by Equity Magazine for nothing!

    I am no doubt wasting my time talking to you because you have a rigid mind with a set ideology.

  • Anonymous

    Crazy Libertarian fear mongering nonsense.

  • Anonymous

    Debt payments in 2013 were $255 Billion, according a study by the bi-partisan Commitee for a Responsible Budget if interest rate rise (which most studies say they will) then by 2018 interest payments on the debt will be $505 Billion which is more than the whole US military budget.

    You can choose to label the information as Libertarian if you want but those are the facts.

    BTW… Armstrong’s blog has a readership about as high as the New York Times, so I guess all those people are misguided too unlike great liberals like yourself.


  • Anonymous

    Debt is not nonsense it is what has destroyed all civilizations in history and it is already ‘harming us’ because that money is not helping society at large, that money could be used to build housing for the poor, provide food or invest in industries to help reduce unemployment and create wealth.

    In 2013 debt payments were $255 Billion and are projected to be $505 Billion by 2018 which is as much as the military budget according to bipartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. This will cause the budget to hit a wall which is why major civil unrest is coming.

    That money is not helping the poor and old and some of it is being exported to China and other countries which is a total loss.

  • Anonymous

    So I am a liberal if I do not agree with your libertarian delusion? LOL

  • Anonymous

    It is you who is deluded into thinking that your liberal paradise will last forever. As former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher said…”Socialism works until you run out of other people’s money.”

    So get ready for the social welfare state to implode, its not going to be pretty. I don’t want this to happen anymore than you do but it is a certainty, you cannot let your credit card balance pile up indefinitely and neither can a country.

    BTW… I once believed in socialism but history has proven it does not work. People will not work hard without a profit incentive, that is why the Soviet Union and communist China collapsed. In the end people in the Soviet Union had to line up for a scrap of meat, once people are not fat and happy that is when revolution happens.

  • Anonymous

    Take over at the local level! Serve on advisory committees. Run for office – school board, city council – speak the truth. Call out the manifestations of the Dark State, such as the militarism of local police forces. They don’t need Abrams tanks. Regulate the rates that ISPs can charge. Protect your local farmland; You’re going to need it. We have power that we don’t use. Start there.

  • Trish House

    All good advice! I think it is important to create our own homeland security by insisting on a debt jubilee to free ourselves of all obligation to and support of the exploiters, and then declare that it is a human right and a birthright of each of us to a free and fair share of the land and its resources so we can take care of ourselves always without interference from any other person or entity. THEN do all that you have suggested when we have a steady platform from which to fight back.

  • Trish House

    Silly to march when no one watches or listens. We need a debt jubilee and then land reform so that it is the birthright of each one of us to a free and fair share of the land and resources we were born to. Those two actions will release us from dependence on corporations and government and will deny them our power and support. Then, from a position of safety, we work together to create a new social design that is by and for the people.

  • Trish House

    BOO! BOO! You scare us. Instead teach solutions, not defeat. Secure the people so they no longer depend on the jobs and handouts of the oppressors and we will have created an unstoppable force of the part of our country in which lies all the decency, and compassion, and help.

  • Anonymous

    Welcome to the new Soviet. Superpowers that play together stay together.

  • Anonymous

    Bill, “honorable men,” who might do the right thing. Really?!

  • Anonymous

    we’re ALL racist, and classist, and sexist, etc. It’s what you do — within your milieu — that matters.

  • Anonymous

    So all the investigations that have turned up no criminal wrong-doing are just nonsense because they do not comport with your worldview? Indeed, ignorance is bliss eh? You’ve made the assertion that Democrats are communists, then you argue you have studied communism more than I have ‘in my entire life’ – how would you know that? It’s a silly justification for ones own understanding and that presupposes you are correct; it’s very odd and smells of a struggle to support a claim.

    So, you have a crystal ball into the roots of communism. What are some of the antecedents to communism historically? vast inequality? Govt. disfunction? Obstruction by ruling parties? Also, what does your crystal ball demonstrate to you with regard to Fascism? If you had to assess, based on current conditions in the United States, which party were more ‘fascists like’ would it be Democrats? Republicans? Try and be honest.

    You’ve written nothing to dispel my earlier assertion(s) to whit you responded. Your lack of erudition remains firmly entrenched – although, I look forward to dispelling my impression and admitting I”m wrong in that regard.

  • Fed Up

    No, the investigations turned up nothing because obama’s cronies are the ones heading the investigations. Do your research before you open your mouth and look stupid.

    Your claims against my points regarding communism just show me that you’re a communist quisling. Good luck with that. If you know the history on the word quisling then you also likely know the fate of the man.

  • Anonymous

    Oh, hell. I suspect most legislators don’t know “model bills” exist or where they come from. But they do know they don’t write the bills, or even read them. They expect their staff to read and understand them and give them their advice. The legislators themselves are totally consumed with fundraising and campaigning.

  • Generalissimo X

    well there you go. this isn’t news to us who have long been screaming about secret/shadow gov’t. glad the rest of you slack jawed gullible rubes finally got the memo. now that you understand your just a cog in their machine what will you do about it?

  • Steven Gaylord

    Senators Kelly Ayotte and Joe Donnelly, who are members of the US Senate Armed Services Committee, visited Israel this week and promised that Washington would continue providing the Zionist regime with military aid, despite massive budget deficits in the US.

    For more than a century, a matrix of Jewish political lobbies, pressure groups, media operators and agents within the American government and legal system have been dominating the United States’ public life as well as its foreign policy. Consequently, the United States has been operating against its own best interests. It has compromised its most precious principles and even its own security.

  • Elliott McWhirter

    Completely agree.

  • Caleb Abell

    That’s why you can always trust your congressman. It’s because of the wonderful flag pins they wear on their labels. Only an honest patriot would wear one.

  • Caleb Abell

    Warren’s response on this matter will be delayed. She is waiting for her prepared statement to be delivered from AIPAC.

  • Jason

    This is a good post. But Libertarian deregulation? Wasn’t Glass-Steagall repealed during the Clinton Admin? What libertarians have had any influence on the banking committee’s in the last 30 yrs? Wasn’t Barney Frank the head of that committee for a long time?

    As with a majority of posts here, no one mentions or discusses Federal Reserve policy. It’s the 800 lb gorilla in the room ignored by progressives.

  • Anonymous

    They’re not my ‘claims against my points regarding communism’…it’s simple history and fact. Does one need to open their mouth when typing? Or is that more of your vitriolic nonsense…that’s a rhetorical question (I’d not want you to look stupid by replying to that).

  • Fed Up

    Nice try quisling.

  • joe_bob_gonzales

    yes, “honorable men”. we can sleep safely now. thank you. knowing they safeguard our liberties and freedoms…well, who can say no.


    Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears;

    I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.

    The evil that men do lives after them;

    The good is oft interred with their bones;

    So let it be with Caesar. The noble Brutus

    Hath told you Caesar was ambitious:

    If it were so, it was a grievous fault,

    And grievously hath Caesar answer’d it.

    Here, under leave of Brutus and the rest–

    For Brutus is an honourable man;

    So are they all, all honourable men–

  • Alice de Tocqueville

    Well, it’s more than a little specious to say that the grassroots takeback you describe would be easy. “Just declare…! Oh, and everyone just quit your corporate jobs! Why didn’t anyone think of that before?! Have you noticed that no one has managed to organize even a 1 day general strike?

  • Gene

    Pure anarchy invites more severe controllers. However, if everyone stopped paying taxes your formula will work, but everybody will be guilty of a crime. If we hang together we will not hang separately.
    All this crap is about money, ultimately, so we just stop playing Barter. Bitcoin. Retire, work for yourself, move out of the country. Eventually, the monster will budge. Warning: get your money out of 401k, it is the last target of feds after a national real estate tax.

  • Skeletonman

    The Deep State = Fascism.

  • Scott Kuli

    Remember that according to Snowden, the government collects massive amounts of data and sends it off to “third party storage providers”.

    The government people probably think that absolves them of responsibility in the event of a data breach, but there are no breaches. Those places are open doors to corporate security teams, and the big ones are run by former intelligence people.

    Want to know why Monsanto knows what tactics groups that want genetically modified foods labelled is using? It’s because their corporate security team can go to these places and browse, without warrants, etc, what those people are saying, who they’re saying it to, etc.

    Remember when it was claimed that the head of Al Qa’ida said the head of Lockheed-Martin “should be assassinated”? Just the claim made, no backing audio, etc. Why? Because Lockheed knows that a lot of people know the background of their F-35 and they want to know what they’re saying and who they’re saying it to. They don’t care about someone saying “They’re charging twice what it’s worth”. Everyone knows that. They want to know who knows it’s history and how they’re telling it to.

    That’s part of “the deep state”.

  • Anonymous

    The people are complicit. Last election 65% of registered voters did not vote. Many used the lame and lazy excuse “all politicians are the same”. I ask these complacent jerks: Do all Supreme Court justices think alike? Give Americans their mobile phones and internet all is good. We deserve the krappy corrupt third world government we have. Arrogance and ignorance reign.

  • Anonymous

    Well put. Thank you.

  • Ruth Eve

    Who is “behind the curtain” pulling the levers and attempting to engineer consent? Look at Hans Hermann Hoppe and Samuel Konkin III (and the anarcho-capitalist Freedom and Property crowd). They have a quite an ideology promoting corruption and assumed superiority (entitlement to power). It includes the Kochs and the crazy crowd of Austrian economists (a so called Libertarian “intelligentsia”).

  • Montaigne Lover

    The people are complicit, of course, but the system also discourages intellectual pursuits, and very few of our citizens understand history or republican government. How many high school seniors have heard the names Montesquieu or Locke?

  • Robert Wexelbaum

    It is not just because people are complacent. It is because even educated and intellectual Americans do not fully understand the complex economic hurdles of Capitalist banking and stock trading systems. We can not take the time to try to understand the fine print on any legal document or credit card account… no less the Global macro economic systems that significantly concern us ever since someone discovered that the world is flat. Flat broke? Should we care that many thousands of people have protested poverty in Italy, France and Greece ? Protesting people in the US will get blamed if a maniac kills a capitalist, you can be sure of that. We can’t do without food and energy. We can’t boycott the businesses that bring profits to banks and billionaire capitalists. Without capitalists there would be chaos because we can not have a single payer socialist economic system such as the one that Castro runs in Cuba. Teddy Roosevelt understood that monopolies run by millionaires had to be limited. He limited the railroad barons. Privately owned railroads however were not to be eliminated. Government bureaucracies are worse than privately run for profit businesses. Now we have American billionaires that own newspapers, cable and TV networks, and other media. They claim to run them democratically but it is hard for them to do so. We can not take away their investments in growing industries…but we must limit their personal wealth of individuals when it causes a very significantly poor distribution of our nation’s wealth. Those who directly contribute to our nation’s GDP should be the most to profit. This will never happen but we must realize that neither Capitalism or Socialism is a dirty word. We need some of both.

  • Anonymous

    You misunderstand capitalism. It is indeed a perfect economic system. Unfortunately, there is no perfect society, nor are there any perfect people and those two things are required to operate a perfect economic system. Properly regulated, capitalism is the best way to run an economy there is. True capitalism and true market forces guarantee fair prices and fair wages by means of marketplace competition. However, it did not take long before people realized that business had to be regulated or it would (and did) quickly become monopolistic and therefore NON-capitalist. We had a pretty good system going for a while there, in the last half of the 20th century. Not perfect, but improving all the time. But it is now being swept away by de-regulation, the evils of the Republican Party and corporate America, and the spinelessness of the Democratic Party.