The Ghost of Joe McCarthy Slithers Again

Right: Rep. Allen West, R-Fla., July 28, 2011 (AP Photo/Harry Hamburg); left: Senator Joseph McCarthy, R-Wis., June 9, 1954 (AP Photos)

We’ve talked at times about George Orwell’s classic novel 1984, and the amnesia that sets in when we flush events down the memory hole, leaving us at the mercy of only what we know today. Sometimes, though, the past comes back to haunt, like a ghost. It happened recently when we saw Congressman Allen West of Florida on the news.

A Republican and Tea Party favorite, he was asked at a local gathering how many of his fellow members of Congress are “card-carrying Marxists or International Socialists.”

He replied, “I believe there’s about 78 to 81 members of the Democrat Party who are members of the Communist Party. It’s called the Congressional Progressive Caucus.”

By now, little of what Allen West says ever surprises. He has called President Obama “a low level socialist agitator,” said anyone with an Obama bumper sticker on their car is “a threat to the gene pool” and told liberals like Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi to “get the hell out of the United States of America.” Apparently, he gets his talking points from Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, or the discredited right wing rocker Ted Nugent.

But this time, we shook our heads in disbelief: “78 to 81 Democrats… members of the Communist Party?” That’s the moment the memory hole opened up and a ghost slithered into the room. The specter stood there, watching the screen, a snickering smile on its stubbled face. Sure enough, it was the ghost of Senator Joseph McCarthy, the Wisconsin farm boy who grew up to become one of the most contemptible thugs in American politics.

Back in the early 1950’s, the Cold War had begun and Americans were troubled by the Soviet Union’s rise as an atomic superpower.  Looking for a campaign issue, McCarthy seized on fear and ignorance to announce his discovery of a conspiracy within: Communist subversives who had infiltrated the government.

In speech after speech, McCarthy would hold up a list of names of members of the Communist Party he said had burrowed their way into government agencies and colleges and universities. The number he claimed would vary from day to day and when pressed to make his list public, McCarthy would stall or claim he accidentally had thrown it away.

His failure to produce much proof to back his claims never gave him pause, as he employed lies and innuendo with swaggering bravado. McCarthy, wrote historian William Manchester, “realized that he had stumbled upon a brilliant demagogic technique…  Others deplored treachery, McCarthy would speak of traitors.”

And so he did, in a fearsome, reckless crusade that terrorized Washington, destroyed lives, and made a shambles of due process.

Millions of Americans lapped it up, but in the end, Joe McCarthy would be done in by the medium that he had used so effectively to spread his poison: television. In 1954, legendary broadcaster Edward R. Murrow bravely exposed McCarthy’s tactics on the CBS program, See It Now.

“This is no time for men who oppose Senator McCarthy’s methods to keep silent,” Murrow declared.  “We can deny our heritage and our history, but we cannot escape responsibility for the result. There is no way for a citizen of a Republic to abdicate his responsibilities.”

Later that same year, for 36 days on live TV, during Senate hearings on charges McCarthy had made questioning the loyalty of the U.S. Army, we saw the man raw, exposed for the lout and cowardly scoundrel he was. The climactic moment came as the Boston lawyer Joseph Welch, defending the Army, reacted with outrage when McCarthy accused Welch’s young associate Fred Fisher of Communism. “Let us not assassinate this lad further, Senator,” Welch said as he shook his head in anger and sadness. “You’ve done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency? … If there is a God in heaven it will do neither you nor your cause any good.”

McCarthy never recovered. His tactics had been opposed from the outset by a handful of courageous Republican senators. Now they pressed their case with renewed vigor. One of them, Senator Ralph Flanders of Vermont, introduced a motion to censure Joseph McCarthy. When it eventually passed 67 to 22, McCarthy was finished. He soon disappeared from the front pages. Three years later, he was dead.

All of this came rushing back as Congressman West summoned his foul spirits from the vast deep. The ghost stepped out of the past.

Like McCarthy, the more Allen West is challenged about his comments, the more he doubles down on them. Now he’s blaming the “corrupt liberal media” for stirring the pot against him – a trick for which McCarthy taught the master class. And the congressman’s latest fusillades continue to distort the beliefs and policies of those he smears – no surprise there, either.

To help him continue his fight for “the heart and soul” of America he’s asking his supporters for a contribution of ten dollars or more.  There could even be a super PAC in this – with McCarthy’s ghost as its honorary chairman.

Plenty of kindred spirits are there to sign on. Like the author of the book The Grand Jihad, who wrote that whether Obama is Christian or not, “The faith to which Obama actually clings is neo-communism.”  Or the blogger who claims Obama is running the country into the ground “by way of the same type of race-baiting and class warfare Communism cannot exist without,” and that his policies are “unbecoming to an American president.”

From there it’s only a short hop to the kind of column that popped up on the right wing website Newsmax hinting of a possible coup “as a last resort to resolve the ‘Obama problem.’” Military intervention, the author wrote, “is what Obama’s exponentially accelerating agenda for ‘fundamental change’ toward a Marxist state is inviting upon America.” The column was quickly withdrawn but not before the website Talking Points Memo exposed it.

So beware, Congressman West, beware:  In the flammable pool of toxic paranoia that passes these days as patriotism in America, a single careless match can light an inferno. You would serve your country well to withdraw your remarks and apologize for them.  But if not, perhaps there are members of your own party, as possessed of conscience and as courageous as that handful of Republicans who took on Joseph McCarthy, who will now abandon fear and throw cold water on your incendiary remarks.

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  • GradyLeeHoward

    Even the admission that one identifies with the label COMMUNIST allows for a wide leeway in behaviors and values. The Communist Party of mainland China has become a corporatist  administration, trying desperately to derive power from a wide-ranging command economy interlocked in its directorate with some of the most reactionary crony capitalist states around the globe.  In North Korea the nominally communist state is a totalitarian cult of personality. Cuba has evolved into a benign backwater too lenient to employ citizens in the grueling cultivation of sugar cane.  There remain some communist parties in Russia and Europe that are often pro-labor and pro-human welfare, sometimes nationalist, but weak minority organizations.  Critics  of established regimes are sometimes termed communists as a shorthand derogatory label, and dissident groups attaining traction are sometimes policed by being lumped with insurgents or, the ultimate derision, terrorists.

    In the case of someone who raves like an irrational fascist, like Allen West, a communist may either be a mythical creature of yesteryear or any of his legitimate opponents. He pre-empts discussion with disqualifying categorizations, and extends a veiled threat of curtailment of rights to anyone with whom he disagrees. Maybe this is not surprising because he is a spokesperson for extreme ideology discredited by both a maladaptive flagging economy and failed foreign military occupations. And the only way he expects to retain power and influence is to create a condition of political panic and anxiety.

    I can’t help but think that some Florida voters were so ill-informed when they elected him that many thought they were supporting Dr. Cornell West and not some sullied Iraq veteran confessed to false arrest and torture of an Iraqi policeman, and later a mercenary in Afghanistan. I don’t think West could identify a communist if one bit him on the butt.
    It’s just some excrement he slings around haphazardly to impress sadists and nihilists.
    There remains a Cold War, but that is between the 1% West represents in Congress and the rest of us. I hope the Florida voters have had their fill of embarrassment and that West  will be booted out in November.

    Contrast this shameful failure with the erudite patriot Professor  Andrew Bacevich who will be a guest on Here and Now (WBUR-Boston, and syndicated) tomorrow (Friday April 26th) discussing American war crimes and their proper disposition.

  • JonThomas

    I want to have respect for elected officials, or at least the office they hold, but this Congressman has made himself into a caricature.

    It is an embarrassment to have this person sitting in such a distinguished position.

    It is even more embarrassing that people elected him to represent them.

    The true tale is that this person somehow raised enough money to run for office. I think that is the real underlying story. This scarey flashback, as was mentioned in the essay, it is the telling commentary of  what this system has become.

    I wasn’t alive when Senator McCarthy was in office, I’d have to do research, but it makes me  wonder what his constituents thought of his actions.

    Are people so easily manipulated? Well, I suppose they are, but it still saddens me.

     

  • JonThomas

    Grady, one could only hope that his constituents boot him. It would be even better if his party would run someone against him in the primary and turn off his funding. They should themselves be embarrasssed.

  • Douglas Jack

    Bill, What is missing from the ‘monolectic’ (‘one-sided’) concerns which you rightly raise, is a healthy need for ‘dialectic’ (‘both-sides’) j’debate’ (French ‘de’ = ‘undo’ + ‘bate’ = ‘the fight’).  As colonial (established by empire) countries, countries of the Americas have never done honour to the tens of thousands of years of First Nation heritage, which included a healthy culture of debate.  As descendants of this genocide we continue to hide from truth in everything we do, not realizing that all perspectives are complementary parts of a whole.  In cowardice from truth we become amnesic further and further down the memory hole while destroying the biosphere each of these perspective-voices represent. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/structure/1-both-sides-now-article

  • Bobbett

    I attended a Republican meeting several months ago just to say what they had to say about the topic of communism. It was eye opening–not in terms of revealing any truths but rather some mindsets that still reveal themselves when we thought they were dead and buried. When the speaker said, about halfway through his monologue, that Joe McCarthy was right, all around me heads were nodding. Yikes.

  • Joseph Upton

    kind of like when Bill Moyers, working for LBJ in the 60′s, was a moving force behind the infamous “Daisy ad” which used McCarthyite tactics against Senator Goldwater.
    When asked by CONELRAD if he could recall his first impressions of
    the ad, Lloyd Wright laughed and said: “‘Wow.’ That was my reaction.
    Wow, that really does hit. We knew it would have an enormous impact. It
    was a very impactful ad.”

    Wright added that “There was some debate (on whether to air the
    spot). Bill (Moyers) and I discussed it. We always tried to anticipate reaction.
    We judged that there would be—a very powerful reaction. But we judged it
    to be so effective in pursuit of our strategy that any risk involved
    was worth the taking.”

  • Gary Houston

    It may be worth noting that not many years ago Ann Coulter inquired, without incurring much rebuke or comment upon its absurdity, “What’s so bad about McCarthyism?” How many decades did it take before this question gained a fresh respectability? As the Darrow character in “Inherit the Wind” observes: “Ignorance is forever feeding.”

  • JonThomas

     I’m appalled by your comment…

     As I mentioned in my comment, I wasn’t born until after many of these events, the mid 60′s in fact. But, although I’m not sure of how Senator McCarthy’s constituents felt about his actions, I am not ignorant of the facts, nor of the lessons we as a society have been taught by that sad episode in American history.

    I really do not want to over-step Mr. Moyers, or take advantage of the kindness in which he offers a public forum here on these threads, as this is obviously directed at him and his past. My comment aside, he and/or his representatives should have the opportunity to respond.  I hope my comment in no way impedes such a response…

     However…

    Mr. Upton, before I make assumptions (which in all honesty I am about to do anyway,) I would have to ask you to explain how in your view the “Daisy Ad” used “McCarthyite” tactics. That is quite a charged statement and before I waste a ton of your time and mine it would be good to have given you the opportunity to do what you should have done in your first comment, explain and back-up such a statement as you have made.

    All discussions of the rightness or wrongness of the Vietnam war and the surrounding politics aside, Senator Joseph McCarthy did not place an ad designed to contrast the military strategy of the time.

    The facts behind the McCarthy hearings consist of unproven statements and accusations. It was the misuse of power and position, not the use of amplification to dramatize true statements. It was the spreading of a fear built upon lies to serve the agenda and ambitions of one man who abused his position in an attempt to gain, and then lose, self-promoting political influence.

    The results of the McCarthy era were the destruction of lives and livelihoods, of reputations and futures, of ideas and ideals. The wake left behind carried the loss of confidence and trust or the word of Governmental officials and their positions. The entire episode was based upon a bully pulpit of one man with no ethics or sense of decency. It served nothing but the megalomania of one man and his power seeking agenda.

    While on the surface you may try to draw a connection between the after-the-fact analysis or potential even perhaps, probable results of the Ad and the ACTUAL effects of the McCarthy Hearings, the ad in which you refer was based upon the TRUE statements of two men running for the Presidency. Nothing was made up, and any presumed loss or preservation of life in the Vietnam war is, AT BEST, conjecture based upon what MAY have been.

    The use of nuclear weapons in Vietnam would have cost lives. Conventional weapons unfortunately did cost lives. You may now begin preparations to roundly attack me, but anytime someone starts with references that American lives are somehow of more value than lives of humans in another country I have to calm down and remind myself, and them, that these same people will often go to church next week and pray to the God of ALL humans, not just those of Americans or of the “un-godly commies,” – –”Forgive them Lord for they know not what they do.”

    We could debate the rightness and wrongness, and “what could have been(s)” of the Vietnam war for years, but then still get involved in another Afghanistan. However, there is no way the “Daisy Ad” has any analogy or comparison to the malicious, deplorable actions of Senator Joseph McCarthy.

    The lessons taught by both The “Ad” and the “McCarthy Era” are completely different and bear no relation to one another except that they are obviously both ignored by our current generation!!!

  • Lairbow

    Has anyone told the representative that Fox News, The Tea Baggers, and the Republic Party don’t like or seek the counsel of people of color so he should stop wasting his breath?

  • Weequash

    This is the same ‘gentleman’ who fired bullets at point blank range into the special headgear placed over a civilian during interrogation in Iraq, to terrorize him. Allen West is a contemptible human being and a disgrace to the United States. He should be in jail for torture, and yet he has a forum in which to spread his noxious venom throughout the country, poisoning the body politic. And remember, he was elected in Florida, the state that gave us the Bush/Cheney coup in 2000 and the ‘Stand your Ground’ law, allowing for innocent young men to be murdered in the street.

  • Catville

    JonThomas, sad to say people ARE that easily manipulated. As a Wisconsinite, I see the nastiness and division in our state caused by Gov. Walker’s policies. His right-wing supporters are pouring millions of dollars into defending him, most of that going to advertising. So far, it’s paying off. Repeat the lies often enough, and loudly enough, and many people will believe them. It’s as true now as it was in McCarthy’s day.

  • Joseph Upton

     “One area where Johnson and Moyers may have crossed the ethical line,
    however, was Moyers’ October 26 request of the FBI, at Johnson’s
    behest, to investigate more than a dozen members of Goldwater’s staff.
    Documents released by the FBI to a congressional investigating committee
    do not indicate what Johnson and Moyers were looking for, but
    transcripts of White House telephone converstions suggest it related to
    the arrest of Johnson’s closest aide. Washington DC police had arrested
    Walter Jenkins on October 7 for engaging in homosexual sex in a YMCA
    men’s room.

    “In a March 1974 article in Newsweek, Moyers addressed the
    episode and suggested that Johnson was merely pursuing a suggestion by
    FBI director J. Edgar Hoover that Republican Party staff members working
    on behalf of Goldwater had entrapped Jenkins.  (When asked in 2010
    about the FBI request, Moyers declined comment and referred this author
    to the Newsweek article.)  No evidence, however, exists that
    Hoover made such a suggestion to Johnson. In fact, it appears that,
    contrary to Moyers’ assertion, Johnson himself raised the issue of an
    RNC-sponsored set-up and was told by a senior FBI official that no
    evidence for such a scenario existed. Whatever useful information Moyers
    and Johnson had hoped the FBI might discover about Goldwater—perhaps
    homosexuality on Goldwater’s staff—did not turn up. FBI officials
    reported to the White House that they found nothing incriminating.” 
    (pp. 79-80)

  • Joseph Upton

     Mr. President:

    While most of our radio-television campaign is to
    project you and your record, we decided – - – as you may recall – - – to
    run a few earlier spots just to “touch up” Goldwater a bit and remind
    people that he is not as moderate as his recent speeches want them to
    believe he is. The idea was not to let him get away with building a
    moderate image and to put him on the defensive before the campaign is
    very old.

    I think we succeeded in our first spot – - – the one on the control of nuclear weapons.

    It caused his people to start defending him right
    away. Yesterday (Republican National Committee Chairman) Burch said:
    “This ad implies that Senator Goldwater is a reckless man and Lyndon
    Johnson is a careful man.” Well, that’s exactly what we wanted to imply.
    And we also hoped someone around Goldwater would say it, not us. They did. Yesterday was spent in trying to show that Goldwater isn’t reckless.

    Furthermore, while we paid for the ad only on NBC
    last Monday night, ABC and CBS ran it on their news shows Friday. So we
    got it shown on all three networks for the price of one.

    This particular ad was designed to run only one
    time. We have a few more Goldwater ads, none as hard-hitting as that one
    was, and then we go to the pro-Johnson, pro-Peace, Prosperity,
    Preparedness spots.

    Bill Moyers

    Even Johnson’s running mate Senator Hubert Humphrey received questions
    about the Daisy spot. During a September 20, 1964 appearance on NBC’s
    “Meet the Press,” Humphrey was asked about his impressions of the
    commercial. The senator replied: “I did not approve of the ad. When my
    opinion was asked I requested that it be removed from the air.”[ 88 ] According to Johnson aide Richard N. Goodwin, Humphrey’s remarks about the spot were “cleared by the White House.

  • Joseph Upton

     Liar.

  • moderator

    Hey everybody, let’s keep the conversation on topic and be polite to each other. Just remember that we want to keep this board a place where we can continue the conversation from the show online.

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  • Joseph Upton

     CBS News correspondent Morley Safer’s 1990 autobiography, Flashbacks: On Returning to Vietnam. Safer writes:

    [Moyers'] part in Lyndon Johnson and J. Edgar Hoover’s
    bugging of Martin Luther King’s private life, the leaks to the press and
    diplomatic corps, the surveillance of civil rights groups at the 1964
    Democratic Convention, and his request for damaging information from
    Hoover on members of the Goldwater campaign suggest he was not only a
    good soldier but a gleeful retainer feeding the appetites of Lyndon
    Johnson.

  • electriclady281

    Ha! Fat chance that the present crop of republicans can present a single person with the integrity, courage, and conscience (what’s that?!) to speak out against Congressman West’s incendiary remarks.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Funding? Now there’s the rub. An examination of West’s specific Congressional fundraising statistics does not differentiate him from the typical Congressperson. The extreme rightist PAC ads designed to mislead and alarm are where he benefits, and that is true for all T(error)-Party types.
    And that’s where the corporate and Oligarch funding comes into play.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    McCarthism began before Joe McCarthy got off the farm in the 1919/20 Palmer Raids. One must understand that Senator McCarthy did not smear and accuse honorable Americans alone but that he enjoyed the favor of Reactionaries and opportunists in both major parties. For instance, Joseph P. Kennedy was a major sponsor and Robert F. Kennedy served as special council to his investigations. Most  supporters did not believe in widespread Communist infiltration of government but used McCarthy’s scare tactics as a terror weapon, much as the T-party now accuses opponents of being soft on terrorists or undocumented aliens. Some of the hardcore element sponsored operation paperclip and tried to protect Nazi war criminals, but they were an ideological minority at the pinnacle of wealth and secret intelligence  who’d been fascist sympathizers before WWII.

  • Roddythompson

    Bill hit this one out of the park.  I have often watched Moyers on PBS and squirmed in my chair as his plodding style put me to sleep.  Bill seems to finally understand that television is a bully pulpit and tonight, he spoke in short declarative sentences.  You are brilliant Bill, but we need to see less intellect and more passion.  Say what you mean quickly and in as few words as possible.  Your attack on Allen West was great!  Fewer intricate words and more bite.  That’s what we need.  Don’t forget that a sentence fragment works well in television.  

  • Norskenelson

    What’s the difference between calling democrats socialist or calling white conservatives racist.. I guess that’s ok.. Bill your true colors show in your programs.. you criticize FOX but never find fault with msnbc & you & your guest feel conservatives cop out by calling msm liberal.. If you feel they aren’t you have blinders on.. even Obama has stated they are…well second thought you are part of them.. on “public” network.. ops you ask why should make a difference..really sad

  • Eaproby

    Politics are getting dirtier & dirtier.  Do we teach the same lack of honesty and morality to our children that we put up with in our elected officials?  Do we want them modeling that behavior?  The simple ability to distinguish right from wrong and the courage to act on it, not just parrot it, is what is lacking in some government officials, and unfortunately, too many citizens.  Notice I’m saying morality, not religion.  Freedom of religion is essential to a Democracy, as essential as the separation of church and state.  Many in our society are treating those with money and power with the reverence once reserved for their God.  Demand proof, or do the research yourself, don’t just believe what you hear:  the lies, the slogans of hatred and separation, the slick innuendoes.  Perhaps innuendo should be spelled in-u-end-o. 

  • Dsweeton

    Our family is so happy that you have returned to PBS. Yours is the best, most honest and informative program on the media. Rep West’s dangerous rhetoric is part of a catastrophic “tsunami” that seems to be rolling across America: the unbelievable lack of good judgment, knowledge, and “backbone” of politicians swept into power the last few years is overwhelming. Now as in the past we need honest thinkers who care about the direction this country is going, not puppets of corporate power and wealth.
    We have seen the influence of the NRA and Tennessee Rifle Association on our state legislature with threats to those who oppose their “gun bills”. The latest one of putting a “used crucifix” at the General Assembly’s door is a sinister reminder of the cross burnings of the uncivil rights era.  We can only hope the OCCUPY Movement will again emerge even stronger.

  • http://www.facebook.com/arsenault.anne Anne G. Arsenault

    As a high school student outside Boston, I watched the academic parents of my friends being accused and condemned by Joe McCarthy and I was afraid.  I remember that feeling of fear of what terror one man could cause.  I hope this will never happen again in this country.  Rep West must be stopped.

  • Anonymous

    Regretfully Mr. Moyer misses the point(s) regarding comments about communism.  We live in a Republic – not a democracy and not a communist state.  Those who wrote our Constitution understood the dangers of these other ideals even though communism was not so named for another century.
    The President and his supporters are proudly marching towards a Socialist/ Communist State in which the freedoms and liberties of our Constitution and Bill of Rights are to be trampled upon by those whose privilege it is to hold that power.  Possibly Mr. Moyers should spend time reading the Consttution and the Federalist Papers.  It used to be taught in schools until it became inconvenient for socialist/communist educators as it displayed their efforts to usurp the Constitution.
    McCarthy was indeed on a witchhunt and destroyed the lives of many people.  However the specter of the loss of liberty in the United States will destroy the lives of millions.  McCarthy may have been misdirected in his actions but he was dead on regarding the threat to the United States.
    That threat exists today.  It was written about clearly by such radical individuals as George Washington.  President Washington understood that when the government no longer defends the liberties and fundamental rights of its citizens then they should be overthrown – if unsuccessful at the ballot box then by means of the Second Ammendment.
    No one likes to talk about such things in polite society today.  That was how we came into existence after writing the Declaration of Independence.  However over the past year we have seen Arab Nations fighting for their liberty as their governments do not serve the people and expect the people to serve the whims of the government.  Why do we support them and call Newsmax radical?
    Mr. Obama is a Marxist.  He has been supported by Marxists.  He espouses Marxist ideology.  And when it is exposed for the threat to the United States that is it he said, Next thing they will say I shared my toys and I must be a communist.  Ha Ha 
    Mr. Moyer your piece is one more exercise at belittling a very serious subject – the very destruction of the United States Constitution and the end of the American way of life.  By belittling the facts and comparing these statements to McCarthy using communist as a four-letter word you are supporting the overthrow of the United States Constitution by Mr. Obama and his supporters.  Shame on you.  You know better.  This isn’t news but political support for left-wing ideology.  At least be honest and admit that what you are doing is no different than these other PACs.

  • Anonymous

    We don’t live in a democracy.  Please educate yourself before posting such statements

  • Anonymous

    Attack is the correct word.  Do not attack the facts but attack the person and the ideas then you can belittle them into irrelevance.  Rather like calling someone a communist and destroying their career.  However, it is OK to do those types of things as long as you are on the side of ‘good.’

  • Anonymous

    Ignore the idea od republican versus democrats as a surrogate of good versus evil.  Listen to what Mr. West said and read the constitution.  then you will realize that what he said is not a bad thing after all.  Of course if you don’t care about the liberties of your fellow americans – only yours – then by all means join the communists as they march forward to overthrow the very society that allows you to be ignorant and vote.

  • Anonymous

    Your ignorance of politics and history is astounding.  I am sure you don’t even understand Stand Your Ground or even the many states that have such laws on the books.  Even California has such laws on the books and they clearly voted for Gore.
    As far as bush/cheney is concerned florida was only one state.  If there weren’t enough electoral votes that it came down to one state then which state was it?
    Indeed Mr. West was dishonored for breaking the rules and getting the information necessary to save another soldier in an unathorized manner.  exactly what does that have to do with speaking the truth?
    Finally if you are going to support Treyvon then I suggest you spend some time learning the facts that have been made available.  To begin with he was in a location where he was not supposed to be.  We do not yet know exactly what caused the fight that ended when Mr. Zimmerman shot.  We do know that the incident could have been avoided if he had not been where he did not belong in the first place.  As with so many tragedies it is the little things that add up to an eventual event.  We also know that several news media groups altered recordings and pictures to portray an event that never was. you obviously never got that message.
    Emotions run democracies and other mobs.  Republics are intended for thought and careful action.  I urge you to learn the facts and think carefully before spouting off foolish statements and, heaven forbid, voting.

  • Anonymous

    Mr.Moderator I understand your effort to keep this as a civil discourse.  Mr. Moyer essentially said that using the word communist is derrogatory.  Mr. McCarthy used it in a witchhunt so we should never again use it.

    However, communism exists in today’s world and is alive and well in its attempts to overthrow the Constitution of the United States.  Mr. Moyer would suggest that we not say such things as if they are too impolite to discuss.

    When right-wing individuals blew up the Murrah Building it was OK to call them various names.  However, when the President and his supporters are members of a Marxist group Mr. Moyer feels it is demeaning to say such things.

    Civility is indeed important.  I support your effort.  However, the use of names as proper descriptions is correct use of the language.  The use of names be it communist or tea baggers as a derrogatory term is inappropriate.  Mr.Moyer missed this point in his piece and many of the posts here also miss that point.

  • Anonymous

    “Communist” is SOOOO 1950s. I  think he can do better than that.

  • Bluegrassbloke

     Pardon me while I fall down laughing… Arthur your comments are tiresome and predictable. We get it, okay?

  • Anonymous

     Boot him out? In Florida the land of retirees and rednecks? Not a chance!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Catherine-Mason/705689570 Catherine Mason

    This guy is plugged in to the wrong century.

  • Babette37

    Obama is so far from Communism. But the eery talk of a coup, as unimaginable as that might be, could be the reason that Pres. Obama plays up to the military so much. Maybe just to preserve a certain base of credibility and security with the military.  I know it sounds far fetched but when the right starts talking about it and advocating for it….

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Catherine-Mason/705689570 Catherine Mason

    If there is a march toward a communist state which would trample our civil liberties, look toward the Patriot Act which codified such.  This act remember is a product of G.W. Bush and company.  I do have to say I am offended at the bill that was passed and signed by Obama allowing American citizens to be arrested by the military and held without counsel.  The President’s signing statement says that he himself would never use this provision and perhaps he felt he had to sign in the interest of going forward on the rest of the necessary legislation in this bill and since there is no line veto for the President.  But still, I believe he should have sent the bill back for revision.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Nothing is far-fetched when you’re a hostage.

  • Pops

    Maybe that’s the problem our politics are now all sound bites and talking points. We need more intellect and thoughtful discussion on issues that will effect our country for years to come. Passion is a good thing but emotional knee jerk reaction is not. We all need to calmly make our choices on facts. Instead to often we form opinions based on slick ads and coordinated talking points. That’s why he who spends the most money usually wins. We are being sold politics the same way we are sold household products…it’s all advertising.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Plug in the words Terrorist, Muslim, terrorist-sympathizer, Muslim-sympathizer, insurgent (This is a modern sounding term but it originated in our AmerIndian genocide peak of the 1800s.), Anarchist (Intelligence agencies infiltrate Occupy with provocateurs, then say the movement is dominated by a violent and lawless element.), Hacker (There are cadres of code warriors who do mischief to supposedly secure data systems. The CyberWar threat is being exaggerated to bring extreme reaction to bear.), and these are but a few of the most popular labels. Less ubiquitous are Peacenik (Not too many of us left.), Treehugger, EcoTerrorist (Some protectors of old growth forests and believers in anial rights have been given long sentences under new terrorist law codes.)

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Don’t forget Whistleblower and Leaker. President Obama seems to fear these in particular.  Usually the media ignores what they reveal and focuses on their violations.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    The very fact that Cold War gibberish is all fascist extremists have to share should alert us to T(error)-Party laziness. (It should also alert historians to the theatrical nature of the Cold War.) But then again the Snarky element may be seeking LOLs. And as always I wonder what in particular made the moderator hit delete. As I told Sean Ellis (Administrative Assistant/Moderator) the other day, there is a “memory hole”  (ANTI-DOCUMENTARY) element to all censorship. Contrast this with generous funding Congressman West receives for playing an idiot, and look what a big soapbox he has. But as VP Biden has bragged,”I assure you that the President has a very big stick.” (His reputation as an orator precedes him.)
    Scapegoating and reputational/financial targeting are merely precursors to droning or car bombing (war as diplomacy taken to the next level). What I mean to say is that pretend government is like a staged drama where lead players need extreme minor characters for dynamic reaction.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Blewgrass- This is not a laughing matter. Imagine yourself a witch in Salem.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    And now David Petraeus can drone anyone he wants virtually anywhere on Earth. But he’d never do that in the Homeland, would he? That’s just for tourists in Yemen, where the price of food and fuel tripled this year and babies are starving. (No one is ever hungry or cold or in  pain without medication in the “richest nation”. We are so blest, and bless-ed.)

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Even scarier, as a young actor in  California, I saw Ronald Reagan entertain Birchers and White Supremacists in desert rallies and admired him.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    As Marty Kaplan observed (as have others) there is a war against caring and human solidarity in  this country. Maybe big business is afraid sharing and voluntary cooperation will hurt sales numbers. 

    RIFLE association? So lets take away handguns and make them conceal carry a tree foot piece of steel strapped  to their leg.

    That “used crucifix” was just in case vampires (about 78 or 83 of them) had infiltrated the statehouse. (According to Glenn Beck) It would have been a sacrilege
    for the Invisible Empire to fail at flaming up. 

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Well, pro football is getting dirtier too(injury bounties). NASCAR has had to jazz up conflict to a fake wrestling level just to keep market share. Don’t look at video games, even the Army uses ultra violence on young teens for pre-recruiting. (And then we wonder why they pee on corpses.) It is a puzzle whether our appetite for sadistic violence is driving politics or if political escalation is driving sadistic violence in the culture. But we can be sure these things are mutually reinforcing. In any case “The lightbulb must want to change.”

    Joel Osteen could explain how it is that God (universal Creator of all) is always broke and needs your paycheck, but  promises to pay you  back tenfold next Friday. (M&C has a prosperity gospel page.) George Carlin often wondered that too.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Bill asks us not to slander our opponents and has strict standards on these commentary threads. As for racists, it’s all relative, because we all have in-groups and out-groups and the weakness of a reptilian brain stem beneath our cerebrum.
    Being empathetic can cancel out our prejudices and fears.  

    Bill tackles the most urgent dilemma at hand. Right now most media generates fear and divides us. Bill tries to unite by informing the electorate. There may be moments of illusory cyber-pleasure, but what is that as compared to camaraderie and friendship with equals?

    Bill is not dumb enough to consider MSNBC “Liberal.” It’s all commercial all the time. The efficacy of Liberalism has passed along with fossil fuels. Cellphone cameras have likewise eclipsed guns and police brutality. Bill at 77 is more ready for new things than many young MBAs who have minds invested in antique economics.

    Bill is your friend and you’d be wise to listen.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Bill is a place-hitter. He advanced the runners.
    You’re the manager. Flash him the go-sign.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Let them know you’re watching. That sometimes resusitates survival instincts.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Takes one to know one, don’t it?

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Amen!

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Look Sean Ellis, Upton is correct to admonish grandstanding.
    Lairbow is robo-calling his comment. (As R. Gervais says: Lazy!)
    Some people have failed to understand that a post non-partisan peace is being sought.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    It’s a really good comedy routine.
    Wonder why Bob and Ray never tried it.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    C’mon, these guys were serious about Mutually Assured Destruction.
    Kennedy and Castro had nearly lit us up the year before.
    Barry Goldwater should have countered with Ron Paul-like criticism of Vietnam, but he didn’t. Remember that Goldwater was a Major General in the Air Force Reserve. And the dog-eat-dog commercial world Goldwater envisioned (no unions, no Social Security, no job  security, no food or medical security, just runaway markets) was post-nuclear in scope, so that Moyers cleverness in advocating the DaisyAd seems very apt today as we see all our sustaining programs and public institutions threatened. What would work well in  selfishly operating Goldwater’s Department Store would be suicide in government. Anyone who promises to run the state like a business is either stupid or is planning on taking all the revenues as a bonus.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    So Bill was a Lee Atwater when he was a pup, but he’s been a good hound (for news) for decades now and I wouldn’t kick him off the couch. I think he’s way beyond being a Democratic Party guy today.
    You can’t  make all those thoughtful shows and write the associated books and not learn something. Harping on ancient history is nearly as awkward as reviving McCarthism.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Sexual mores were radically different 50 years ago. Walt was arrested for flirting, not doing it. There had to be an undercover solicitor present for that to happen. In those days urban YMCAs were notorious as “tearooms”. (Women and girls shared dressing rooms but men and boys were usually separate which shows something was up.) I think I’d leave no stone unturned to find out how that  incident went down if I were President. During this same era Kennedy had hosted pool orgies with celebrities and Secret Service participation. (Cartegena?) But hetero-sex enjoyed the insulation of power prerogative. I do not doubt that J. Edgar’s sexual obsession and ambiguity played a part because LBJ and he were longtime colleagues. Blackmail has always been associated with illicit sexual activity so an investigation was warranted. (Everyone was puzzled about invisible cabals because the Warren Commission Report was a known coverup.) And Moyers was an obscure aide to a sitting President. Was he going to refuse duty? As a church boy from the South I imagine Billy Don found homosexuality pretty strange anyway. Now I’m sure there were gays in Goldwater’s camp because a certain percentage of any sample of men (10%, maybe 15%) are gay and  others (15-20%) are bisexually curious. (Modern Republican sex scandals have involved homosex as well as pedophilia.) Anyway what we are discussing is “hot politics” at the highest level with the Presidency as prize. It gets to a Forbidden Temple pitch. (Romney and Obama are peculiarly mundane in comparison because the Presidency has been eclipsed by Global Corporatism. They are functionaries.) So by rehashing this episode Joseph Upton has reported “dog bites man” and avoided reporting “man bites dog” stories from the same dim past. We are wasting time.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Hey Joe Upton, you must have the MLK/FBI sex scandal stored in WordPerfect so why not roll it out now and get the tantrum over with. 

    That was nothing compared to how Google and Facebook track us.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Yeah, it’s like talking sports. Only the old guys ever saw Ted Williams play, or Stalin.
    Platos Cave, deja-vous; all over again. (Berra) Just fish stories, …. this long.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    The New Age is now anachronism. I guess nobody told you.
    Molly Ivins extinguished the didactic dialectic when she observed  ”There are at least 19 sides.” so you begin to understand that Franz Boas’s particularism is more illustrative than Lewis Henry Morgan’s Hegelianisms.
    So there is still the cooked and the raw, the sweet and the sour, the woman and the dowry….    but our perception is stronger these days and we can detect gradients and eddies in the spectrum, and reorganization becomes possible. Someday you will have forgotten much more than you still know.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    So laugh at the man, not at Congress? You are tres gentile, Monsieur.
    If we can’t laugh at Congress humor is dead.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Wisconsin is reprobate but always recovers. McCarthy defeated LaFollette: Proxmire replaced McCarthy. Maybe cold weather makes human memory shrink.

  • Ramadeyrao

    Thank you for bringing this level of paranoid fear to the forefront. I always say there might well be bad elements anywhere and everywhere, there might well be the fearsome everywhere. SO WHAT??? Why should I be afraid? I have my life and then will die just like anyone else. Why should it make me cower so low as to falsify situations and present them just to be elected. HOW bad must I be at my job that I would need to resort to such tactics? Shame!
     

  • GradyLeeHoward

    When you’re stuck sweating indoors with  the A/C roaring you watch too much TV.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Bill ran a piece when M&C first started about how RINOs (Reactionaries in name only) are all resigning. Senator Snowe was his example, I recall.
    What ever happened to Margaret Chase Smith?

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Could a public figure like MLK retain a private life today?
    Problematic conceptuality.
    The NSA certainly has my number.
    I’m thankful for my fake iris contacts.
    Don’t you recognize me?

  • GradyLeeHoward

    If Dr. Mike was available, the lonely church ladies needed to know.
    Bill provided a public service.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    N-U-N- dough$

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Each of us has a choice to make Occupy one human body stronger.
    That is now our primary means of voting (with our feet).

  • GradyLeeHoward

    C. Mason- I’d really appreciate it if you could politely summarize the post to which you respond. I’m trying to determine if rude critics here are organized or if pranksters are at work. As Kaplan says, this Internet remains “Wild West.” (I think it resembles Deadwood *HBO.)

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_D6XRJXXIXBFXIYH5VXFWJY5ULA truthbetold

    McCarthy was ultimately proven to be mostly correct.  The Government was seriously infiltrated with both Communist spies and Communist Sympathizers.  Obama’s White House and his list of Czars are filled with Socialists and Communists.  The Congressional group that Alan West refers to, Congressional Progressive Caucus, is a Socialist group.  In my Congressional district our previous representative was in this group and she and admitted Socialist. Van Jones, the former Green Jobs Czar under Obama, was an avowed Communist, remember him?  He still lurks out there.  Moyers, you need to open those eyes and see whats going on around you. 

  • Richard

    Rewriting history are we?

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Hah, caught you participating on a Communist site.
    Even with lye soap you can’t reverse the contamination of your precious bodily fluids. 

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Revisionist  novels usually turn right and hypothesize about fascist coups in America. Turning left takes one into science fiction, possibly surrealism. Isn’t trutbetold Allen West’s screen name? (apartment in Germantown, MD) Now you can support him by buying his novel, out on July 4th. The role of Catnip, an Ayn Rand-like archer, is blatantly autobiographical. 

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Please, moderator, do not delete the post below. It’s precious!
    I wonder what this writer thinks McCarthy got wrong between cocktails and trysts with Roy Cohn.

  • moderator

    Hi Grady,
    BillMoyers.com encourages conversation and debate around issues, events and ideas related to content on Moyers & Company and the BillMoyers.com website. In this case we are just trying to keep the name-calling to a minimum.

    Thanks,
    Sean @ Moyers

  • JonThomas

    Grady, I read it quick late last night.  Perhaps M(r)s. Mason will be able to remember it better, but it was a rant designed to run Mr. Moyers down into the mud with a bunch of false syllogisms and innuendo.

    Mostly it was a soapbox piece on Mr. Moyers’ dime. It railed against the supposed communist state being ushered in by the Democratic party and the even more supposed loss of liberty that would inevitably result.

    The “Guest” replied to everyone, mostly telling them to “educate themselves before they comment.” He then, unknowingly,  went on to prove the …”one finger pointing, three fingers pointing back at you” adage. He was using a form of intimidation to try to embarrass those with whom he didn’t agree. Instead, he succeeded only in embarrassing himself and obviously getting his comments removed. Perhaps some of them should have been able to stay, but I think the moderator had merit, if nothing else to shut down the intimidation and damper the backlash that would have no doubt occurred.

    The one phrase I was looking forward to correcting was an incredible mix up in understanding political terms.

    The “Guest” said… “We live in a Republic, not a Democracy.”

    I had to shake my head, tell myself it was late, and go lay down before he commented on mine, otherwise I would have been up all night writing lol,

    Guest, if you read this…please know that a Republic is a form of Government. Specifically, one in which the people (read: PUBLIC) have a hand in and control over…as opposed to a Monarchy for example.

    A Democracy is a Government system in which the citizens of a such a Government play a role in the choosing,  installing, or “electing” which people, or even citizens (read: PUBLIC) will hold Government office. This is a simple explanation, there are different types of democracies, some direct, some not so direct (use wiki if you need.)

    Our Government is indeed a Republic but it is ALSO a Democracy.

    Now, whether or not our Republic, and it’s Democratic system has been corrupted, is a different matter.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    But this ain’t like Joe Wilson calling the President a “lyin’ n****r” right during the State of the Union. This is the one redeeming post of Mr. Upton (on this thread) and you flagged it.
    It is obvious that some people of color gravitate to the Republican Party and allied institutions which makes Lairbow’s statement obviously false. I am a former Republican and of mixed race so I caught on right away. My very history makes Lairbow’s statement a lie. One who makes a false proclamation is by definition a liar. truthbetold above also stated an untruth when he said McCarthy was accurate in his accusations. It is not even impolite to say so. Moderation is an art and I’m sure you are more capable than I, but there are exceptions to every rule.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Remember that the EtchaSketch had already hit the market in 1960. Goldwater was a mixmaster on two knobs. 

  • moderator

    Once again, we encourage discourse, but comments like “liar” are not helpful. That is all I was commenting on.

    thanks,
    Sean @ Moyers

  • JonThomas

     Grady while I agree with your argument, perhaps Mr. Upton could have said “that statement is untrue (or a lie),” instead of calling Lairbow a “liar.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001964135368 Jane Silverman

    If you didn’t experience “The McCarthy Era”,  be glad, but listen to those of us who did.  This is NO JOKE.  The issue is NOT whether or not someone is a “communist” or “socialist”.  the issue is that this kind of character assassination is UNACCEPTABLE.  Open, civil discourse, including disagreement with a person’s views or actions is “the American way”.  Character assassination has no place in a democratic society.

  • moderator

    Hi,
    Just as an update, the program we use removed all of Arthur_500 comments because he attempted to post hate-speech on another thread. We are trying hard not to remove or edit any comments, but sometimes it just can’t be helped.

    thanks,
    Sean @ Moyers

  • JonThomas

    Yes, they do provide entertainment…unfortunately.

    If I laugh at this man though, it is in  “head-shaking” disappointment.

    He takes an important, what should be distinguished position and shames both himself AND his position.

    He does make a laughingstock of himself though.

    And you are right, humor should never be allowed to die. I suppose the day we stop laughing at congress, at the way men (mis)handle responsibility, or at our own foibles, we would be past recovery. :(

  • JonThomas

     Well said.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-William-Loeffler/1666677695 David William Loeffler

    Mr. Moyers, I would suggest you do a little bit of research.  The KGB records of that era have been released and McCarthy was right.  So is Rep. West.  Please, wake up, sir.

  • Richard

    Care it offer any documentation?

  • Tim

    Well said, Mr Moyers. Well said.

  • Florence Granowitter

    To the Republican “Young Turks”:  Is there no sense of decency left in your mad grab for power?”

  • Anonymous

    With all due respect, Mr. Moyers, Rep. West has nothing to apologize for.   You are a jounalist, and as such, I’m surprised you didn’t perform any journalistic investigation prior to writing an article that dismisses Rep. West.   Anyone doing a little bit of homework of their own will find that 39% of the House Democrats are members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus.  The Democratic Socialists of America are represented in the House by the Congressional Progressive Caucus according to their own literature.  Perusing same literature one finds all of the tactics currently being used, and encouraged by our own President: “Community organizing,” “Occupy,” “Union Activism.”  I think Allen West has bravely brought this conversation into the open and deserves our highest respect, along with an intelligent review of the facts before dismissing him as another Senator McCarthy.

  • Anonymous

    Mr. Moyers  , the Communist Party USA BACKS Barack Obama because of his communist progressive policies. Barry should come out of the closet , stop living the lie and state I am a communist.
    http://www.cpusa.org/obama-state-of-the-union-he-got-the-ball-rolling/
    God Bless Allen West for speaking truth to power!

  • Helenjh

    l believe Bill Moyers is a truthful and honest reporter.  l respect his opinions and insight.  this is where l get my unbiased news.   l have been on a “media fast”  for some time!  good for Marty Kaplan for coming forward with the  honest truth.
    Helen 

  • military veteran

    Representative Allen WestMuch has been made of my recent response to a question from a constituent and assertion regarding so-called “communists” in the Congressional Progressive Caucus. I am pleased it has inspired so much passionate debate, for that was precisely the point.
    When I was studying for my two master’s degrees in political science at Kansas State University and at the U.S. Army Command and General Staff Officer College, the very best professors were those who would begin each lecture with a challenging assertion. It engaged discussion and analysis, and was the best way to uncover the essence of the particular subject of the day.
    As Americans, we must bring to the fore this fundamental discussion of what we want our country to be. Do we veer from our Founders’ vision of a constitutional republic that preserves and protects the individual sovereignty of its citizens, along with the free market and the rights of the several states, or do we continue to slide down this path of expanding the secular welfare state, nationalizing production and enforcing economic equality?
    My colleagues in the Congressional Progressive Caucus have taken umbrage with my equation of their ideals with those of communists. Why? Why shouldn’t we have this discussion? What part of their agenda are they trying to hide?
    We must be able to openly discuss how our fundamental freedoms are being slowly chipped away by an over-reaching nanny state that has bit by bit slipped its tentacles into every aspect of our lives, from the types of light bulbs we can use to the size of our toilet tanks.
    We must be able to challenge the mandates being handed down by un-elected officials, which threaten our constitutional right to practice religion however we see fit.
    We must be able to question tax policies predicated on “fairness” that punish job creators and do virtually nothing to reduce our spiraling debt and deficit.
    Specific “party” affiliation is not the point of the discussion — it is rather affiliation with a set of ideals. Conservatives adhere to the ideals of individual responsibility and freedom, limited government, a free market and a strong defense. Those on the liberal left adhere to a collective ideal, directed and controlled by a centralized government to guarantee and enforce social and economic justice. 
    You can call this what you wish. The esteemed scholar and author Mark Levin calls it “statism.” In our lifetime, the unpalatable and pejorative brands “socialist” and “communist” have been replaced with the more user-friendly “progressive” term.
    But this is not a discussion about labels. It is a discussion far more important and grave, for it affects our nation’s future, our security and each and every one of us. The dialogue must be about the future and direction of these United States. It is about the choice between two futures:  a constitutional republic or a bureaucratic nanny-state.
    As a nation, we must directly confront those issues that are most critical. We must be able to openly and candidly discuss how we will move forward to preserve our nation’s greatness, reduce our debt and deficit, put Americans back to work, take full advantage of our domestic energy resources and ensure our security.
    I do not believe we can achieve those goals with larger and larger government, centralized economic planning and redistribution of wealth. Those methods have failed miserably everywhere they are been tried. I will not stand by and watch this nation I love be remade slowly into a government-directed, bureaucratic collective — whether it is termed communist, socialist, progressive or any-other-ist.
    I am not a politician by trade. I learned to communicate on the battlefield, where “nuance” is not at all useful and can in fact be dangerous, if not fatal. 
    These are dangerous and critical times for our country. We must be unafraid to discuss and confront the challenges we face and ensure we keep our focus on the fundamental issues rather than become distracted by semantics. I gladly welcome this debate in the arena of political ideologies of governance

  • paul h

    where  on earth is the hole these over bearing republicans come out of. ?  surely the american

    people  can see and read there actions for what there worth.

  • Chris

    Very well said Mr. Moyer, Very well.
    Before anyone tells some to go someplace else, I belive that he should be the one to go somewhere else.  Millions of us were here long before he was born.
    I am glade that we have jurnalist who speak for many of us.  The Frontline, 60 Minutes and
    you are on top of my list. 

  • military veteran

    I live in Iowa Paul.
    I also know how to spell” their” .
    We as a group tend to speak in complete sentences and form our ideas as arguments.
    De-humanizing your opponent is a tactic for the uneducated.
    If you want to argue, then argue, but don’t call me names.

  • Thdbrw

    Glad Moyers is still on the beat!

  • JonThomas

    I see this is a word for word copy of an op-ed of Representative West’s. There were no references attached nor were there quotation marks.

    There was no apology in this op-ed. Has he actually retracted the section of his now infamous remarks where he accuses the members of the Progressive Caucus of being “MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY?”

    Such a declaration smacks of a lie and should be well below the standards we expect from a Congress person in this country.

    Sadly, we see a lot of unscrupulous conduct from our Congress People, but this is even below unethical private life behavior. He has abused his office and could very well be guilty of slandering his fellow Congress People. Unless he can prove his assertions, he has discredited himself, his office, and should at least be censured if he can’t prove his remarks.

    Now, some will not like me or my words when I say that I would not be offended if any of those Legislators were members of the Communist Party, but one of the real problems is that, like Senator McCarthy, Representative West makes a declarative statement with the intent of demeaning those men and women with no proof of his words.

    His statement was used as a scare tactic to discredit his fellow Congress people and the ideals for which they stand.

    He, and every American should be ashamed of how he acted in the regard.

  • Justbecause

    History for most people in America is a lost cause because much of it has been taken out of our educational system and that’s exactly how many of the 1% like it. I can’t even believe that this subject matter is even talked about. China is still Communist but most of every American buys almost every product in their house from China, does that make every American a Communist ? Americans have got to get a grip on reality most of us still think that our president has power when infact the people making all of the decesions are Congressman and Senators who are bought off by the banking industry and big business. We are ignorant Americans and should be ashamed of ourselves for allowing our citizenry to be bamboozled by this type of BS.

  • Sbraddock

     There is plenty of proof that Joe  McCarty was proved right abut his allegations.   FBI and military translation documents of all cables between America and Russia. These documents were called the Verona Papers.  Our government was infiltrated at the highest levels.  Aids closest to  FDR were communists who spied for Russia. Col. West may be politically incorrect according to the left in this country ,but he is more than  correct on what he has said, Few politicians   stand for truth in our country.   Those on the left are in denial on most  critical issues but we have reached the tipping point and are in deep trouble thanks to unchecked liberalism.  Mr. Moyers  is knowingly incorrect as are most of the old media on the left.  No need to burn books just rewrite them to fit the left narrative and the naive believers buy the rhetoric, along with the lies.   Bill Moyers is a friend of Geo. Soros with the same goal “One World Order.”  Look up communist goals and see how many they have achieved  at our expense thanks to democrats.  

  • Florence Granowitter

    In all of this talk bout communism, isn’t anyone disturbed by Republican attempts to hijack elections by redistricting, making it harder to vote, and even writing laws that would remove democratically elected officials to be replaced by a single appointed individual who would rule in the interest of the money pacs that put him in place?  That is not “free” capitalism but plutocracy.  When the voice of the individual voter has been stolen from him, democracy has been injured–whatever name you give it.  And the hypocrital name-calling of republicans who triy to arouse  a mob mentality in place of the civil discourse that, Bill Moyers reminds us, once characterized responsible leadership and good journalism, is not the democracy we recognize.  In fact it very much resembles the rants of dictators of every kind–who gain power by lies and repression of the individual voice.

  • Anonymous

    I wish I understood why this kind of mentality flourishes so in Florida. Since moving here I have been told to” get the hell out of America” many times. They seem to believe in bullying as a way of being.
    “American Thinker” above totally missed the point. You are allowed in a free country to express a belief in things other than the disastrous capitalism now destroying the world, yes even a belief in communism. He also simply lumps together communism and socialism as being the same thing, shallow thinking at best. His obvious disdain for those who labor in this country is also clear. Unions and community are not dirty words. Occupying our land and our government are things we SHOULD do, in fact it is our duty.
    Yes we can say what we want in this country but unlike the bullying of the political right, some people like to include a healthy dose of respectful thought to go along with it. If they can blast their thoughts with hateful intensity under the name of free speech, Mr. Moyers and others can also reply to it. May replies to hatred always flourish in this country!

  • Anonymous

    “this is not a discussion of labels”, really? Why were so many used in your post then? You labeled those who recognize that humans live in community and need to address things as a community as desiring to live in a “nanny state”. You then elevate conservative labels unfairly.  Conservatives talk about “individual responsibility” yet work to see that women cannot even be responsible for their own lives. They use the word “freedom” yet under Bush gave us the beginning of the end of our freedoms with the patriot act and defended the loss of freedom by saying we needed security. “A strong defense” gets warped into going to war against anyone we feel like whether they have done anything to us or not.
    How you label something is important. I label this an attempt to subvert real values which you know nothing about.

  • term limit

    You are a blind old man, Mr. Moyers.  Or may I add your name  to the list?
     
    Three cheers to the “An_American_Thinker’” below.  Not only are there key words that tell what is in their hearts, their “Progressive Promise” is a bunch of bold-faced lies.  Please go to their website and read for yourself.  They tell people what they want to hear, and then go do the opposite.
     
    How does Obamacare equate with “Economic Justice?’  It is government meddling with our healthcare that has created the monster we have now, but that is what they want. 
     
    How has “invest in America and create new jobs in the U.S.” translated to Economic Justice?  It is Barney Frank, barking at the top of his fat-filled lungs, loan money to anyone who wants a house, even if they cannot afford the purchase.  And then, our “president” saying, let’s bail them all out.  This is where the money is going, not repairing bridges.
     
    Minimum wage keeps people in poverty;  it does not elevate them.
     
    Protecting and Preserving Civil Rights and Liberties?  How many CPCs openly stated that the Constitution is a dead document?  Too many, and if they don’t do it themselves, they drag out their sympathizers, such as Ruth Bader Ginsburg.  And, then they get other sympatizers trying to put all of us on the defensive, as Lesley Stahl tried to do with Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia what is wrong with the living Constitution?  Justice Scalia answered, “What is wrong with it is, it’s wonderful imagery and it puts me on the defensive as defending a presumably dead Constitution.”  People like Lesley Stahl can pack their bags as far as I am concerned.  Further, our civil rights and liberties are quickly going down the toilet with people like these, as well as the Napoleonic bureaucrats at all levels of government.
     
    How about the statement “To fight corporate consolidation of the media and ensure opportunity for all voices to be heard.”  Hillary Clinton already knows that the media has been consolidated.  What they want to do is now take away talk radio and free speech on the internet, which has been exposing these reckless individuals for what they are.
     
    How about the statement, ” To eliminate all forms of discrimination…..?”  I have never seen a party so dedicated to keeping poor people “in their place.”  This is the party of class warfare.
     
    This is the party of the windmill.  The government’s own statistics have shown that one takes all of the costs of production, windmills are about 35% efficient.  Coal and nuclear are over 80% efficient.  If you want to know where the other 65% goes on windmills, the money goes to the CPC in campaign contributions, mostly from Siemen’s and Mitsubishi, both foreign companies.   Google “dead windmills in Hawaii.”  
     
    IT IS TIME FOR TERM LIMITS, as most in Congress do not do their sworn duty.

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    So once again I ask everyone to please remember the very clear rules for posting on this site:

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  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_HOUFIU5JT6ZR6WZ7ASOX3IIV6I Truck

    Is Rep West correct about the Congressional Progressive  Caucus ? Lets see , there to date 76 elected members to the House of Representatives that our members , are they communist ? well why not look at their actions and platforms and decide . Bill Moyers is no one to talk about name calling he is by far the leader of this , does bill think we can not go back see what he had to say about past Presidents and Republican members of Congress   ? Bill you are far more guilty of this sort of thing than Rep West is . one last note  lets look at who supports and is affiliated with the Congressional Progressive Caucus  shale we .
    Supporting organizations

    The non-profit organization most closely associated with the Congressional Progressive Caucus is ProgressiveCongress.org which works to connect the caucus to progressives outside the Congress.

    In addition, an array of national liberal organizations work to support the efforts of the progressive caucus, including the Institute for Policy Studies, The Nation magazine, MoveOn.org, National Priorities Project, Jobs with Justice, Peace Action, Americans for Democratic Action, and Progressive Democrats of America. Also co-sponsoring the kickoff event were the NAACP, ACLU, Progressive Majority, League of United Latin American Citizens, Rainbow/PUSH Coalition, National Council of La Raza, Hip Hop Caucus, Human Rights Campaign, Association of Farmworker Opportunity Programs, and the National Hip Hop Political Convention. well I think Rep west is correct but hey thats just me . Right ?

  • Bea

     I agree.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Noam Chomsky arrived at exactly the same conclusion, Pops.

  • JonThomas

     Mr. Thinker…

    Representative West did not simply say that House Democrats are members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus. Even if he had, there is nothing “un-American” about any citizen belonging to a Communist Party, a Socialist Party, The Congressional Progressive Caucus, The Democratic Socialists of America, doing community organizing, working with the Occupy Movement, Union Activism, or  belonging to, and engaging in, any other legal group or legal activity.

    What Representative West did was not “brave!!”

    A brave, responsible man would have pursued the truth, presented facts, and fought on the merits of an argument or his principles.

    Mr. West did not just allude to certain Congress Persons who have different opinions from his own , then explain why he felt it important to fight them.

    Representative West made unsubstantiated allegations that “he believes 78-81 members of the Democratic Party are members of the Communist Party.”

    He has presented no proof of his “beliefs.”

    What he has done is play on the unfounded fears of some Americans.

    This is an extremely COWARDLY attempt at discrediting the Democratic Party, The Democratic Progressive Caucus, and the ideas those patriotic Americans fight for every day.

    You, Representative West, and others may disagree with viewpoints of those “78-81″ Congress People, and their values, but it is not a brave thing to make unfounded statements in an attempt to discredit those American Citizens.
     
    If he disagrees with them, and is truly brave, then either let him present his proof and then go on to explain why belonging to any of those groups, or engaging in those activities you mentioned is somehow bad or Un-American.

    But to infer that those Congress People are “Members of the Communist Party” and are somehow working against the nation and the American people is cowardly at best. Rather, it seems a malicious attack on the great efforts of those Congress People.

    Now, I’m not a big supporter of Congress. I think the entire system is in the control of interest groups with monied power and influence. But if I make a statement of such, and somehow forget, or neglect to present support of my assertions, then if I am challenged I will gladly and as BRAVELY as possible, either back up my statement or apologize for misspeaking!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/arsenault.anne Anne G. Arsenault

     AS a retiree in Florida, I completely agree.  I was told that I should be ashamed of myself for being a Democrat.  The Republicans have been allowed to run everything here for so long that they are inbreeding their ignorance;  without diversity this state will slowly fall apart.

  • term limit

    This website does not encourage the truth.

  • JonThomas

     Actually, I find this site to be one of the best purveyors of truth on the web. It offers some of the most insightful commentaries on current events and matters of public interest to be found anywhere.

    The people who comment here come from all walks of life and represent a broad spectrum of age, education, and eloquence.

    Those who put this site together, including Mr. Moyers and  those who help him, along with the many who participate, may not always agree with one another, but they endeavor to present their facts and information in a civil, thought provoking manner.

    That said, I saw your comment which was removed by the moderator. I flagged it as inappropriate. I hope many others did also.

    In your comment you insulted a member of Congress by calling him “fat.”

    Is that the type of “truth” that you feel “this website does not encourage?”

    If so, then I have to agree with you. As soon as I read your insult, I stopped reading your comment and flagged it as inappropriate.

    Just like Representative West, the moment you cross the line of civil discourse and behavior appropriate to the situation, you disgrace yourself. Even your valid arguments then become inappropriate. You should apologize and correct your abusive behavior. If you do not, you endanger any future possibility of being taken seriously and of earning respect.

    I am proud of a site that refuses to air insults of the nature that was included in your comment. For the reasons I describe above, the Moderator was right to remove your comment and I hope you can find a more appropriate way of participating in the future.

  • Anonymous

    You forgot Walt Kelly’s Pogo satire on McCarthy.  Murrow delivered another blow. Then, came the hearing.  We lack good satire these days.  What is akin to Shaw’s Major Barbara satiric thrust at arms makers?

  • Tooterpick

    hey term limit, i bet you support the domestic terrorist named allen west!?!?!?!?

  • Tooterpick

    David, please provide links to the KGB records you mention, since YOU have done so much research yourself

  • Tooterpick

     But he’d never do that in the Homeland, would he?(Change Homeland to Fatherland) That’s just for tourists in Yemen, where the price of food and fuel tripled this year and babies are starving. (No one is ever hungry or cold or in  pain without medication in the “richest nation”. We are so blest, and bless-ed.)<<<i got news for you, there are lots of hungry sick people here in the USA

  • Truth

    Thank you for being here.  We need you and more.  I remember the McCarthy era.  I was very young, but scared.  McCarthy’s echoes were awful, even for a young child.  I understood, even as young as I was, how dangerous he was.  And now, as a retired person, I am reliving some of the frightened feeling.  There is almost no truth out there at all.  Thank you for delivering.  Keep it coming.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1397854383 Craig Gorsuch

    Anytime someone brings up how evil “McCarthyism” was I like to point out what self-professed “progressives” fail to remember: The fall of the USSR uncovered decades old classified documents from within the KGB that proved that McCarthy was – by and large – *right* in ferreting out the communist traitors in the U.S. Government.

    But don’t “progressive” organizations have same the privilege as “conservative” organizations to vet their prospective (and current) membership to determine if there is anyone within said organization deliberately working *against* the goals of said organization?

    No?  Then you’re in favor of a GLSN organization being headed by a conservative Christian who has the intent of shutting down the organization?

    No for “conservative” organizations only?  Hypocrite!

    Yes?  Then quit ballyhooing about McCarthy.

  • http://www.facebook.com/arsenault.anne Anne G. Arsenault

     I was terrified during the McCarthy years when the fathers of my friends who taught at Harvard and MIT were called Communists.  These were hard-working academics who may have read about Communism but loved this country.  And now everyone seems to name call even without proof and people believe them.  I may be a Liberal but surely everyone now knows that Communism doesn’t work.  But Christianity does when we care for our neighbors.  I suspect some people today might call that Communism.

  • Anonymous

    I am not surprised to see the McCarthy tactics again.  Since the Koch brothers fund  & focus the Tea Party (and superpacs etc.), and  their father was one of the founding members of the John Birch Society, it isn’t a surprise to see allegations of socialism & communism, and that the apples have not fallen far from the tree. 

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Ah, but there lies another issue. Is that Congressperson actually noticeably overweight? If so, then what you consider an insult may contain a nugget of truth. What if I were to call Governor Chris Christie of NJ fat? He is truly obese and no one denies it. David Letterman calls Christie fat several times a week. Such jibes are part and parcel of being a public figure.

    Jon Thomas and Sean Ellis, are you both too tender and unworldly to realize  that such sharp enforcement on such technical grounds stifles discourse here? I can tolerate a small mind censoring my quips, but I cannot tolerate attempts to make these threads entirely the Bill Moyers Fan Club. And I do notice when you muzzle our opposition because of your Progressive leanings, and I do think you are going  a little too far. Shall we come to a point where every partisan finds major fault with minor aspects of the other side’s rhetoric and much discourse is censored by the false f lagging outrage of churchlady standards?

    I think some of us may  be debating when we should be reflecting. I think  some of us may be a little inebriated by the power to erase thoughts we do not like. I do not think this is what the Bill Moyers I know, who cracks jokes as part of his spiels, intends at all. By these standards Will Rogers and Molly Ivins would be greatly expurgated. Let people say their piece in peace, and if they wind up looking stupid let that be their problem. We are not  children here, and should not be treated as such. Deletion has already chased valuable discourse away. Don’t emulate MSM.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Yes, Miss Landers.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Jon
    Sometimes it is better to ignore ignorance than to acknowledge it.
    Everyone who is going to get it (that West is behaving inappropriately) has gotten it, and these Reactionary respondents will never concede.
    On every blog they robo-call their formulaic retorts. Some of them are compensated. Notice how this organized rebuttal comes in late and all at once. Oft-times one operative reposts under several screen names.  Some of this trash is actually generated  by US intelligence agencies, what Moyers calls the Secret Government. This is a bitter and strange world where 100% of people will never be empathetic, where the hungry can be lured with food and the fearful mind subverted against itself. Stay in the light and keep a camera cellphone handy. Show yourself passively and avoid those Zimmerman-like impulses. If M&C is to become  a gated community then the best correspondents will vacate.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Hitler was a criminal sociopath in league with  the German Elite and foreign fascists. Marx was a scholar-activist always concerned about the disadvantaged. Hitler’s policies killed tens of millions. Marx never participated in violence beyond running a printing press. Allen West is an accused war criminal who advocates for Social Darwinism. Is West more of a Hitler, or more of a Marx? The answer is self-evident.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    So what Congressman West implies is that anyone disagreeing with a policy of extreme economic and social austerity is seditious and traitorous.
    “Communist” is a shorthand smear of the majority of American citizens and as such amounts to advocating  a  Reactionary Putsch. As such he is merely a collection agent for speculating financiers.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    They will use Allen West like Extra Soft Charmin. 
    He will become permanently and totally impotent before their operation is through.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Right wing advice: Never distrust the KGB.

  • GradyLeeHoward

    Bill Moyers has heard it all before and he is not fazed.
    He may even feel overly protected.
    Ignorance and stupidity  are self-evident.

  • Edie

    Thank you Bill for  your couragous commentary on the Allen West new Joe McCarthyism which echoes what I felt when I heard those same slanderous remarks by Allen West against Democrats calling them Communists.  You are the Ed Murrow of our day. Bless you for speaking out. If only we heard more pushback by Democrats and our President and V.Pres. re. AllenWest’s McCarthyism.  

  • Chrehn

    Thank you again to Bill Moyers for keeping us informed. Keep up the good work.

  • Annvioli

    i believe congressman west is a BIG fan of the ‘manchurian candidate’, although, that candidate may have said,’ no less than 37 card carrying…in congress’.  i forget exactly, but perhaps we should explore WEST’s real motivation and connections further…

  • Azinoman

    Thanks You Bill!

  • JonThomas

     I get the points you are making about responding to ignorance, and yes, true…arguing with the foolish is a foolish endeavor( I’m sure at times, from the view of another person I’m in the role of  the fool,) but there is a “rub” as you say.

    This topic and forum is just a microcosm of the rise of ignorance and inability to think for oneself.

    Mt Kaplan’s piece was great and gave good insight into “info-tainment.” But another problem has contributed to the problem.

    For a while mow, especially during and after the Clinton years, the left sat back and did just as you assumed…”that ignorance and stupidity are self-evident.” Actually I think the Carter Administration in their 2nd run was the most at fault.

    They didn’t gear up for any fights because they seemed to assume the political and equality battles won in the 60′s were over. Surely people “got it.”

    The result was a resurgence of lazy thinkers willing to blame the problems we see around us on the victims.

    “It must be the poor’s fault that the country is in recession. Cut back on Government aid.”

    “It’s the EPA’s fault that business isn’t thriving. Cut back on  Government oversight.”

    “The rich create jobs, cut back on taxes to the rich.”

    These are but some of the ignorant messages we see spewed everyday and it thrives because we all too often assume that such ignorance and faulty reasoning is self-evident.

    I agree with what you said above that many won’t “get it” and there is a time to cut off the debate, a time to not pound our heads against the wall of ignorance.

    And yes, there does seem to be a lot of these “Reactionary respondents” on robo-call.

    However, until people train one another to think, until the level of debate is lifted, until people know that a Republic and a Democracy are apples and oranges and  together make a great fruit salad, sitting back and assuming that ignorance and stupidity are self evident is what has got us into the position where we are today.

    Many of the very people who are being victimized by the 1% are the ones who are defending their own attackers. There minds and hearts have been won over by the FOX pundits. We as a culture respect people who stand up for themselves, it’s been conditioned into us by 3 generations of movies and our history as a revolutionary country.

    Yes, perhaps I can try to be less-over bearing, but ignorance and stupidity are not as “self-evident” as we would like! More need to “gear-up!”

    They need to know we are tired of it and we aren’t going down easy. If it’s the zombies they’ve created to parrot their messages are who we are fighting, then so be it! But the zombie masters will have to learn they better prepare their brain-dead warriors to bring their A-Game.

    They post reactionary comments because they know something we don’t…stupidity and ignorance, just like maliciousness and laziness are contagious.

  • tman

    ok ..well it seems unfounded but u must admit that there are a lot more people consistently angry w/ the situation that this country is in…and that is not unfounded..the method is incorrect but we need to do something..

  • tman

    mr .Kaplin touched on it …why do we have to b extremists ? well media driven ;)   but to say that thes people r completly wrong and dismiss them is dangerous as well…things r much worse than when mccarthy was abjecting….many people share the belief this country is out of control..at least the government …obamas latest deal w/ healthcare and demands against the supreme court is unconstitutional in the most obvious way .its important people stand up and protest ..its their right and duty as americans ..it wouldnt have become such a problem if more people had stood up and took notice prior to this .Action is the only way to promote change .Patriotic people should be commended ..Its our own fault ..we voted the government in..w/o doing our homework and not forcing them out when they did unconstitutional things…in your own words ” he gets his talking points from fox news ,rush limbaugh and discredited right wing rocker ted nugent ” to lump them all into the same category is very dangerous as well…why isnt the government officials being investigated …? why isnt the secret service doing more investigative inquiry into the catholic church scandal that just kind of faded away .. again its not unfoundeed that these people r angry and lash out against what they are seeing in their everyday lives ..their rights and freedoms dissapearing moment to moment ..these problems way beyond political party lines and left ..right ..liberal..”we the people” ..as Mr kaplan said there is so much misinformation that many people feel like they havve to choose one side or the other ..or just remain nuetral…fact is we all must act…the food industry is a good example ..we have so many more choices now fer people who actually want to take care of themselves and eat right ..yet we have people still not educated on what it really means to eat right ..so the marketability of  dare i say ” unhealthy foods” survives and thrives..people can change things..through their purchasing habits and their moral stands…the longer we wait to take action the harder it becomes..i love your show and have followed u for many years..and true journalism is alive and well in your career ..and i agree w/u mostly ..i just think considering your first guest Mr. Kaplin talked of such blatent conspiracy in the wide open  that would dismiss the right wing views as insignificant

  • JonThomas

     I think, if I understand you correctly to say that… many people, from many different backgrounds, have legitimate grievances and should have a right to air such grievances… it is a valid point.

    The problem here is that Representative West’s demagoguery starts with what is, at best, a miss-spoken assertion.

     And since in the midst of the fact that no member of Congress is a member of the Communist Party, he doesn’t seem ready to retract his statement, it seems more and more evident he may have lied on purpose.

    Either way, until he corrects his statement and apologizes, he stands as an example of disgrace and won’t be able to respectfully represent anyone or their potentially valid grievances.

  • tobew

    Proganda is proganda no matter how it’s label, McCarthyism, war on terror, 911, left wing, right wing, religion, etc., I am surprised that you think in such limited reality.

  • scc10182

    old joe was right because the democratic party is controlled by communist and you are one moyers.that’s right you commie traitor you deserve a traitors reward.

  • Ladiealoha72

     I find it interesting that Republicans (“conservatives”) decry the audacity of a government which regulates water and energy consumption in the interests of CONSERVATION of natural resources, and yet insist that the State should involve itself in the reproductive decisions of women…some of the most personal and individual decisions we make. West is a gallumphing hypocrite, as are most “conservatives” in the US.
    JMO

  • Nel Ivancich

    I fully agree.