In this excerpt from his interview with Bill Moyers, former Republican congressman Mickey Edwards talks about Grover Norquist’s beguiling ability to hold elected officials to absolute anti-tax positions. “It’s not conservatism, not rational, not adult,” Edwards tells Bill. “It’s a 12-year-old’s kind of thinking.”

Edwards chaired the Republican Policy Committee, was a founding trustee of the conservative Heritage Foundation, and served as the national chairman of the American Conservative Union.

Watch the full conversation between Bill Moyers and Mickey Edwards.