Replay: Live Chat with Carne Ross

Carne Ross joined us in a live chat and answered your questions on Tuesday, April 10. The conversation covered a lot of ground with Ross offering advice for getting involved; his thoughts about nation states; the European Union; James Joyce and anarchism; and the success of participatory, direct government at the community level. You can replay the chat by hitting the play button in the box below.

Carne Ross was a British diplomat for 15 years before leaving the foreign service to found Independent Diplomat, a nonprofit consulting firm that offers diplomatic advice to poor, politically marginalized governments and political groups, including Kosovo, Somaliland, and other NGOs and institutions. He’s written two books: Independent Diplomat: Dispatches From an Unaccountable Elite and Leaderless Revolution: How Ordinary People Will Take Power and Change Politics in the 21st Century.

Carne Ross

(04/10/2012)

  

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12:41

Moyers & Company:  We'll be getting underway in about 20 minutes, but please feel free to enter your questions to the queue now. Tuesday April 10, 2012 12:41 Moyers & Company

12:45

[Standby]  We'll return at 1 PM ET with Carne Ross. Thanks for coming to our live chat!

12:47

Carne Ross:  Carne here Tuesday April 10, 2012 12:47 Carne Ross

12:57

Moyers & Company:  Thanks so much for joining us, Carne. Tuesday April 10, 2012 12:57 Moyers & Company

1:00	Carne Ross:  Very glad to be here. Thanks for having me. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:00 Carne Ross

1:01	Moyers & Company:  Carne Ross was a guest on 'Moyers & Company' this past weekend and we're so happy to have him here with us today to answer your questions. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:01 Moyers & Company

1:02

Moyers & Company:  Carne was a British diplomat for 15 years before leaving the foreign service to found Independent Diplomat, a nonprofit consulting firm that offers diplomatic advice to poor, politically marginalized governments and political groups, including Kosovo, Somaliland, and other NGOs and institutions. He’s written two books: Independent Diplomat: Dispatches From an Unaccountable Elite and Leaderless Revolution: How Ordinary People Will Take Power and Change Politics in the 21st Century. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:02 Moyers & Company

1:02	Moyers & Company:  Why don't we get started by talking about Leaderless Revolution. What inspired you to write the book? Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:02 Moyers & Company

1:03	Carne Ross:  The need to believe. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:03 Carne Ross

1:03	Carne Ross:  I was so disillusioned by what happened to me in the UK govt. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:03 Carne Ross

1:03	Carne Ross:  I had to find something to believe in. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:03 Carne Ross

1:03	Carne Ross:  These thoughts were grinding away in my brain for a very long time. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:03 Carne Ross

1:03	Carne Ross:  And the book took a long time to write Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:03 Carne Ross

1:04	Carne Ross:  Five years! I kept having to rewrite it! Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:04 Carne Ross

1:04

[Comment From Fred Dana MeyerFred Dana Meyer: ]  In response to your post asking if people watched the show with Carne Ross, Rebecca Glenn made some powerful statements about the human condition (e.g. "Us vs Them is a toxic habit..."). How does Mr. Ross foresee OWS moving forward without selfishness, greed, and the desire to have more than someone else getting in the way of progress? Thanks for asking for questions! Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:04 Fred Dana Meyer

1:05	Carne Ross:  I don't know. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:05 Carne Ross

1:05

[Comment From Donna CohenDonna Cohen: ]  You said that voting is an "inconsequential" act. Would you comment more on this? Do you really think people needn't bother to vote? I ask partly because I plan to have an Occupy class on Civics and voting is something we shall discuss. Thanks. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:05 Donna Cohen

1:05	Carne Ross:  I think it's a very powerful movement precisely because it is many things not one thing, and that it has no leaders. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:05 Carne Ross

1:06	Carne Ross:  I think most of the people in it are well intentioned and want nothing more than real change. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:06 Carne Ross

1:06	Carne Ross:  In fact, Bill M asked me this question but it didn't make the broadcast interview Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:06 Carne Ross

1:06	Carne Ross:  I don't believe it's not worth voting. It matters who is in govt. A lot. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:06 Carne Ross

1:07	Carne Ross:  But i don't think voting is enough. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:07 Carne Ross

1:07	[Comment From DominiqueDominique: ]  Were you surprised to see the Arab Spring, Occupy Movements, etc...Or did you see some of this coming? Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:07 Dominique

1:07	Carne Ross:  As someone who has worked on the Mid East for a long time, I WAS surprised by the Arab Spring. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:07 Carne Ross

1:08	Carne Ross:  And in a sense the book is not really about that phenonmenon. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:08 Carne Ross

1:08	Carne Ross:  It's really about what's wrong with western democracy. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:08 Carne Ross

1:08	Carne Ross:  And indeed several Egyptians told me that they dont want western style democracy cos they can see that its not working Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:08 Carne Ross

1:09	Carne Ross:  I didn't see OWS coming either! And as long it is mainly a protest movement, it's not what I'm talking about in the book, altho it references OWS a lot. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:09 Carne Ross

1:09	Carne Ross:  I want to see OWS become less protest, more construction of better alternative systems. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:09 Carne Ross

1:09	[Comment From Elizabeth FriedrichElizabeth Friedrich: ]  Elizabeth Friedrich of Occupy Bank Working Group here. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:09 Elizabeth Friedrich

1:09	Carne Ross:  HI Elizabeth. Good to see you! Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:09 Carne Ross

1:10	[Comment From David LibertDavid Libert: ]  Hello carne, I saw your interview with Bill Moyers and was very impressed. Regarding alternate banking, have you heard of the Ripple Monetary system? I think it holds great promise Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:10 David Libert

1:10	[Comment From RayRay: ]  How does one get involved with the new bank project? Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:10 Ray

1:10	Carne Ross:  I hadn't heard of this and wd love to hear more. Pls point me to some info., Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:10 Carne Ross

1:11	Carne Ross:  Go to www.nycga.net for info about the group, or send me an email [email protected] and we will respond. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:11 Carne Ross

1:11	[Comment From Dick KaiserDick Kaiser: ]  On a more relevant note, what are most salient ways of supplanting the for-profit banking system? Does OWS have some priority it is working on currently? The clock is ticking... Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:11 Dick Kaiser

1:11	Carne Ross:  The clock is indeed ticking. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:11 Carne Ross

1:12	Carne Ross:  And no one really can say what OWS as a whole is doing. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:12 Carne Ross

1:12	Carne Ross:  There are some ppl in SF for instance whove set up a credit union. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:12 Carne Ross

1:12	Carne Ross:  OUr bank group here in New York is making progress, but it's tough work. We are looking for low hanging fruit to get some momentum. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:12 Carne Ross

1:12	[Comment From KarenKaren: ]  I am attending a local occupy meeting this Saturday for the first time. Any advice? Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:12 Karen

1:13	Carne Ross:  Great! My advice is keep going. We've had a lot of ppl come to our group, make their speech and never return. It's not much help and wastes time. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:13 Carne Ross

1:14	[Comment From Eric MosleyEric Mosley: ]  How does a leaderless revolution effect sustainable egalitarian change? Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:14 Eric Mosley

1:14	Carne Ross:  That's the change I wd like to see. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:14 Carne Ross

1:14	Carne Ross:  And the book is v much addressed to a progressive audience who tend to see govt as the answer. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:14 Carne Ross

1:14	Carne Ross:  I don't think this works anymore. I want equality and sustainability. But there's no sign that govt is going to give us these goods. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:14 Carne Ross

1:15	Carne Ross:  We've got to make it happen ourselves. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:15 Carne Ross

1:15	[Comment From RnewellRnewell: ]  Mr. Ross: How is what you are advocating different from Libertarianism, which basically sees government as the problem? Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:15 Rnewell

1:15	Carne Ross:  Libertarianism and anarchism have a lot in common, but I am in the latter camp. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:15 Carne Ross

1:15	Carne Ross:  It's not enough just to seek liberty, and reject govt. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:15 Carne Ross

1:16	Carne Ross:  We have deep responsibilities to each other, and must effect them. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:16 Carne Ross

1:17	Carne Ross:  My revolution is to produce particular social changes and more meaning in otherwise empty lives. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:17 Carne Ross

1:17	[Comment From Eric MosleyEric Mosley: ]  Isn't the essence of good government, to provide a vehicle for us to carry out those responsibilities? Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:17 Eric Mosley

1:17	Carne Ross:  yes, you're right of course. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:17 Carne Ross

1:18	Carne Ross:  But in my view representative govt has become poisoned and has in fact divorced us from our social responsibilities. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:18 Carne Ross

1:18	Carne Ross:  govt offers to take care of these responsibilities, eg take care of the weak Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:18 Carne Ross

1:18	Carne Ross:  but it is not delivering Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:18 Carne Ross

1:18	Carne Ross:  I have special needs children Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:18 Carne Ross

1:19	Carne Ross:  The provision for them offered by the state is a disgrace. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:19 Carne Ross

1:19	Carne Ross:  I also feel that we are encouraged just to enjoy ourselves and govt will take care of the problems. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:19 Carne Ross

1:19	Carne Ross:  It's a contract between the ineffectual and the irresponsible Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:19 Carne Ross

1:19

[Comment From Ann WalesAnn Wales: ]  Hello Carne: I was much impressed with your interview with Bill Moyers, particularly with the idea that governments simply cannot respond quickly enough or act in people's best interests for us to simply rely on them without getting involved or building a NEW system. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:19 Ann Wales

1:20	Carne Ross:  Thanks. We're on the same page. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:20 Carne Ross

1:20	[Comment From Tara Grover SmithTara Grover Smith: ]  We surely cannot depend on our elected leaders who are bought and paid for to effect change. Their voices are more powerful than ours. How can we elect a "good government?" Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:20 Tara Grover Smith

1:20	Carne Ross:  Build it ourselves, don't expect to elect it. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:20 Carne Ross

1:20	Carne Ross:  Start local within yr community. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:20 Carne Ross

1:21	Carne Ross:  Locally organized govt - self-govt - has far more legitimacy than politicians who are bought by special interests. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:21 Carne Ross

1:21	Carne Ross:  Consider who funds Gov Cuomo here in NY state. It's so obvious what's going on. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:21 Carne Ross

1:21

[Comment From KathrynKathryn: ]  In Chicago there's so many organizations - for change, how can I get involved in the most meaningful way? How do I choose where to begin? I'm not exactly intiminated by the younger population, that I see more of, but just don't know where to begin! Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:21 Kathryn

1:22	Carne Ross:  Good question. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:22 Carne Ross

1:22	Carne Ross:  I think my first piece of advice is to answer the question: what is it that you most care about? Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:22 Carne Ross

1:22	Carne Ross:  What upsets you, or inspires you, so much that you really want to take action? Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:22 Carne Ross

1:22	Carne Ross:  No one can answer this but you. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:22 Carne Ross

1:23	Carne Ross:  Then find what's going on in that area. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:23 Carne Ross

1:23	Carne Ross:  Connect with those trying to make a difference. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:23 Carne Ross

1:23	Carne Ross:  They are usually out there somewhere. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:23 Carne Ross

1:23	Carne Ross:  But if they're not, do it yourself. But the key is to get going. Don't wait. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:23 Carne Ross

1:23	[Comment From Ann WalesAnn Wales: ]  What do you see as the most basic steps/actions our leaderless group must take to successfully build a new, more successful system? Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:23 Ann Wales

1:24	[Comment From NancyNancy: ]  Occupy Seattle seems to be beset with a lot of intergroup conflict. How do they avoid defeating behaviors of going after each other rather than focus on solutions to our political structures. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:24 Nancy

1:24	Carne Ross:  Depends what your primary concern is, try to orient around that rather than changing everything. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:24 Carne Ross

1:24	Carne Ross:  Basic step #2. Learn about the problem, then consider how to affect it. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:24 Carne Ross

1:25	Carne Ross:  Not easy but essential. Dont be satisfied with writing to your representative to ask them to do something. Might work, probably won't. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:25 Carne Ross

1:26	Carne Ross:  As for Seattle, New York Occupy has v similar problems. GA and Spokescouncil are pretty farcical at times. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:26 Carne Ross

1:26	Carne Ross:  Again, I suggest don't wait for consensus. Get on with what you can. Keep others informed. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:26 Carne Ross

1:26	Carne Ross:  This is what we're trying to do in our Occupy bank group. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:26 Carne Ross

1:27	Carne Ross:  Progress on real substance silences the silly debaters - and we have our share down here. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:27 Carne Ross

1:27	[Comment From Terry SnellerTerry Sneller: ]  So, does your system even include elections? Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:27 Terry Sneller

1:27	Carne Ross:  I think at the city or neighborhood level, elections are not necessarily essential. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:27 Carne Ross

1:28	Carne Ross:  There have been successful examples, cited in the book, eg in Brazil of mass participation in decision making eg on budgets. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:28 Carne Ross

1:28	Carne Ross:  But as I mentioned in the interview, mass decisionmaking eg in a bank would be impractical. Then it might make sense to elect a smaller group. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:28 Carne Ross

1:29	Carne Ross:  Successful cooperatives do this, eg John Lewis in UK. A great example of a good coop. Coops are just great. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:29 Carne Ross

1:29	[Comment From Terry SnellerTerry Sneller: ]  And on the national level? Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:29 Terry Sneller

1:29	Carne Ross:  Aha! Here I am going to be radical. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:29 Carne Ross

1:29	Carne Ross:  I don't believe in nation states anymore. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:29 Carne Ross

1:29	Carne Ross:  And I think they are becoming less and less important. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:29 Carne Ross

1:30	Carne Ross:  They are less and less able to manage probs of global origin. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:30 Carne Ross

1:30	Carne Ross:  Moreover, the national identity of all countries is moving from singular to v plural. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:30 Carne Ross

1:30	Carne Ross:  This has always been the case in the US of course, but it is now happening everywhere else. Look at Europe. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:30 Carne Ross

1:31	Carne Ross:  I think it's disgusting that ppl who want a better life are prevented from travelling. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:31 Carne Ross

1:31	Carne Ross:  No one owns the globe, we all do. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:31 Carne Ross

1:31	[Comment From Matt MorrisMatt Morris: ]  Maybe with so much technology and communication available, we don't need a representative style government. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:31 Matt Morris

1:31	Carne Ross:  I sort of agree, but don't think that tech alone is the answer. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:31 Carne Ross

1:32	Carne Ross:  The book argues that in person meetings produce v different and better outcomes than virtual debate. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:32 Carne Ross

1:32	Carne Ross:  Part of me believes that the internet and e-communication is v alienating. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:32 Carne Ross

1:32	Carne Ross:  On the other hand, look at us now! Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:32 Carne Ross

1:33	[Comment From Michael DurkinMichael Durkin: ]  Interesting about nations states as less important. This seems to be what corporations are good at. And they're not exactly angels. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:33 Michael Durkin

1:33	Carne Ross:  Yep that's right Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:33 Carne Ross

1:33	[Comment From NancyNancy: ]  would it not be better to frame that we are all part of the globe and a part of the whole. we can't own the globe. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:33 Nancy

1:33	carneross:  @JessRGrogan thx [via Twitter] Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:33 carneross

1:33	Carne Ross:  Nation states are being supplanted by new actors. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:33 Carne Ross

1:33	Carne Ross:  Not all of them benign, far from it. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:33 Carne Ross

1:34	Carne Ross:  Global multinationals. Criminal networks, to name a few. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:34 Carne Ross

1:34	Carne Ross:  We need to organize globally. It's a new battlefield. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:34 Carne Ross

1:34	[Comment From MaggieMaggie: ]  Yay! No nation states. Agree. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:34 Maggie

1:34	[Comment From RobertoRoberto: ]  I agree with you, how do we lessen the impact of global corporations? Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:34 Roberto

1:34	Carne Ross:  organize globally to fight them. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:34 Carne Ross

1:35	Carne Ross:  Fight apples with apples (you know what i mean) Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:35 Carne Ross

1:35	Carne Ross:  Boycotts, mass campaigns, can work. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:35 Carne Ross

1:35	Carne Ross:  I think we will see more of this in future. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:35 Carne Ross

1:35	Carne Ross:  But we've got to stop seeing them as omnipotent and us as powerless. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:35 Carne Ross

1:36	Carne Ross:  We've really got to step up and fight. And be a lot cleverer about it. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:36 Carne Ross

1:36	[Comment From DennisDennis: ]  You remind me of James Joyce who wrote that he wanted to create a new consciousness for the world. He also envisioned Europe as one. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:36 Dennis

1:36	Carne Ross:  Well, he wasn't so right about that was he 🙂 Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:36 Carne Ross

1:37	Carne Ross:  Despite the fine motives of those who built the EU, it enjoys little support aamong ordinary ppl. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:37 Carne Ross

1:37	Carne Ross:  And that alienation is now playing out eg in Greece, Spain etc. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:37 Carne Ross

1:37	Carne Ross:  You cannot impose legitimacy thru institutions as happened in Europe. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:37 Carne Ross

1:38	Carne Ross:  It has to be earned, built up. Not just designed. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:38 Carne Ross

1:38	Carne Ross:  Other than that, I deeply love Joyce. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:38 Carne Ross

1:38	Carne Ross:  In a sense an anarchist writer. Form ultimately constrains. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:38 Carne Ross

1:38	Carne Ross:  Hence formless writing is the free-est and most truly expressive. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:38 Carne Ross

1:38	[Comment From DennisDennis: ]  As close as the EU can be one but you are talking about a shift in consciousness...he did it with art.. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:38 Dennis

1:39	Carne Ross:  Anarchism is this idea in political form. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:39 Carne Ross

1:39	[Comment From ClaireClaire: ]  How does one person start to become effective? If signing petitions is only marginally useful, what actions can be taken by someone with limited time or energy? Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:39 Claire

1:39	Carne Ross:  Audit your own life first/ Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:39 Carne Ross

1:40	Carne Ross:  There are probably things you can do right now with your own choices, eg what you buy, where you bank, which you can change Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:40 Carne Ross

1:40	Carne Ross:  This doesn't need to be time consuming. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:40 Carne Ross

1:40	Carne Ross:  But real change doesnt come easy. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:40 Carne Ross

1:40	Carne Ross:  I don't think you can do it without sacrifice of some kind. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:40 Carne Ross

1:40	Carne Ross:  But apart from the genuinely poor, working 2 jobs to get by, I think most ppl have plenty of time, if they choose. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:40 Carne Ross

1:41	[Comment From katkat: ]  closing accounts and going to credit unions and small,community banks without parents - does this help? Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:41 kat

1:41	Carne Ross:  yes! Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:41 Carne Ross

1:41	[Comment From GuestGuest: ]  scorplfty: Who's the last government leader you trusted and what can we do to make sure we're electing candidates dedicated to transparency and integrity -- and that they stay that way? Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:41 Guest

1:41	Carne Ross:  Golly that's hard 2 answer Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:41 Carne Ross

1:42	Carne Ross:  I have worked with a lot of v senior politicians. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:42 Carne Ross

1:42	Carne Ross:  often nice, but there's something wrong with ppl who want power over others Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:42 Carne Ross

1:42	Carne Ross:  they are ironically not the ppl you want in power Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:42 Carne Ross

1:42	Carne Ross:  you want ppl who DON't want power in power Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:42 Carne Ross

1:42	Carne Ross:  but ideally no one shd have power over anyone else Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:42 Carne Ross

1:43	Carne Ross:  so that's a general way of avoiding your question! Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:43 Carne Ross

1:43	Carne Ross:  but to try to answer it Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:43 Carne Ross

1:43	Carne Ross:  I like Obama a lot. But he demonstrates the limits of what even a good man can do Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:43 Carne Ross

1:43	Carne Ross:  in the current system. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:43 Carne Ross

1:43	Carne Ross:  Healthcare being the obvious example. Dodd Frank - and watering down thereof - another. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:43 Carne Ross

1:44	[Comment From SharonKSharonK: ]  How do you define anarchism? Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:44 SharonK

1:44	Carne Ross:  It's defined in many many ways, and that's part of its problem Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:44 Carne Ross

1:45	Carne Ross:  The book is my definition - self organized action, done with conviction, consulting those most affected (and few bother to do this) Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:45 Carne Ross

1:45	Carne Ross:  Above all, non-violent. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:45 Carne Ross

1:45	Carne Ross:  Anarchism is often depicted as violent and nihilistic. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:45 Carne Ross

1:46	Carne Ross:  My book offers an opposite vision. But anarchism is also about freedom and actually living the fullest lives we can. I think modern society is a form of slavery for many. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:46 Carne Ross

1:46	Carne Ross:  Doing boring jobs and not feeling that we have any real power to change things. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:46 Carne Ross

1:47

[Comment From RobynRobyn: ]  I greatly appreciate your ideas and optimism, but when you speak of the power of mass movements, it doesn’t ring true for the timebeing. The numbers of people who currently feel compelled to act on these issues are quite small in the U.S – perhaps growing, but there seems to be more marginalization of Occupy and similar movements than growth going on at the moment. What do you see changing those numbers? Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:47 Robyn

1:47	Carne Ross:  I think what might change it is doing things that ordinary ppl can really relate to. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:47 Carne Ross

1:48	Carne Ross:  Most ppl are v put off by the aesthetics of Occupy, how it looks Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:48 Carne Ross

1:48	Carne Ross:  And they don't really see it doing anything beyond protest Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:48 Carne Ross

1:48	Carne Ross:  If it can do things that really change lives eg offering a new bank, then ppl might take more notice. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:48 Carne Ross

1:48	Carne Ross:  Changing the current system is v hard. It is v entrenched. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:48 Carne Ross

1:49	Carne Ross:  WE need new tactics. Protest alone not enough. We need to build fresh systems. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:49 Carne Ross

1:49	Moyers & Company:  Thanks again to all of you for joining our first BillMoyers.com live chat! Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:49 Moyers & Company

1:49	Moyers & Company:  We're going to be wrapping up our conversation with Carne Ross, author of The Leaderless Revolution: How Ordinary People Will Take Power and Change Politics in the 21st Century in about 10 minutes. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:49 Moyers & Company

1:49	Moyers & Company:  Please be sure to get in your final questions now. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:49 Moyers & Company

1:49	[Comment From DalDal: ]  The fact that you still " like Obama" is very surprising to me? How has he been different from the previous admin in regards to imperial foreign policy, two-tiered domestic justice, escallation of the significantly Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:49 Dal

1:50	Carne Ross:  Fair points, espcially on foreign policy where this administration has been deeply disappointing. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:50 Carne Ross

1:50	Carne Ross:  I also agree that it has failed to tackle fundamental injustice in our society, inc in the legal system. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:50 Carne Ross

1:51	Carne Ross:  I like him in that I think he's doing what he can. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:51 Carne Ross

1:51

[Comment From DalDal: ]  (oops)…escalation of the surveillance state, persecution of whistleblowers, protection of government war criminals, appeasement of the financial sector, etc., etc. Hell, Obama has declared that he is judge, jury and executioner of citizens merely on his say so, and with out even providing any public evidence. How can you possibly support this? Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:51 Dal

1:51	Carne Ross:  But I think he illustrates the problem of current system. He's in hoc to interests more powerful than him eg healthcare comnpanies. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:51 Carne Ross

1:51	Carne Ross:  I don't support drone killings. At all. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:51 Carne Ross

1:52	[Comment From Donna CohenDonna Cohen: ]  If there was one thing about the current political system that people don't understand, but need to, in order to make change, what would that be? Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:52 Donna Cohen

1:53	Carne Ross:  I think ppl still want to believe it works. They continue to behave as if it works but believe that it doesn't. It's hard to find anyone who thinks the system is not corrupted. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:53 Carne Ross

1:53	Carne Ross:  But ppl need to take this to the logical conclusion, rather than hoping for a better set of politicians to sort it out. They won't. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:53 Carne Ross

1:53	[Comment From ssrssr: ]  without leaders and a central source for information/ideas, will we be 're-inventing the wheel' all the time Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:53 ssr

1:54	Carne Ross:  It's a risk. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:54 Carne Ross

1:54	Carne Ross:  But part of the philosophy is to stop behaving as if we are ignorant and need teacher to explain it to us. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:54 Carne Ross

1:54	Carne Ross:  In govt, they don't know any better than ppl outside. Believe me, I know! Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:54 Carne Ross

1:55	Carne Ross:  Yes, have leaders, but the best kind lead ppl to liberate themselves. Most unfortunately just want power for themselves. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:55 Carne Ross

1:55	Carne Ross:  The cult of great leaders is v dangerous. You've got it bad here in the US with all the Kennedy worship etc. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:55 Carne Ross

1:56	[Comment From KathrynKathryn: ]  I DO like a good challenge! Thank you Mr. Ross! Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:56 Kathryn

1:56	Carne Ross:  Thank you! Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:56 Carne Ross

1:56	[Comment From kyle kniselykyle knisely: ]  I watched your interview on Bill Moyers joyfully yelling at he TV....YES! You put so well everything I have been thinking and feeling. Thanks so much for all you are doing!!! Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:56 kyle knisely

1:57	Carne Ross:  Well thank you. This is a great payoff for years of slaving over a hot laptop. I appreciate it. We fight on. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:57 Carne Ross

1:57	Moyers & Company:  I think we'll have to end it there. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:57 Moyers & Company

1:57	Moyers & Company:  Thanks again, Carne, for joining us. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:57 Moyers & Company

1:58	Carne Ross:  Thank you for all the great questions. I really enjoyed the discussion, and learned from it. Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:58 Carne Ross

1:58	Moyers & Company:  And thanks to all of you for your questions and comments! Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:58 Moyers & Company

1:59	Moyers & Company:  You can read an excerpt from Carne's book on our website: https://billmoyers.com/content/carne-ross-why-i-left-the-foreign-service/ Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:59 Moyers & Company

1:59	Moyers & Company:  https://billmoyers.com/content/carne-ross-why-i-left-the-foreign-service/ Tuesday April 10, 2012 1:59 Moyers & Company

2:00	Moyers & Company:  And watch the entirety of his interview with Bill here: https://billmoyers.com/segment/carne-ross-on-being-agents-of-change/ Tuesday April 10, 2012 2:00 Moyers & Company

2:00	Moyers & Company:  Sorry we couldn't get to all your questions and comments! Tuesday April 10, 2012 2:00 Moyers & Company

2:01	Moyers & Company:  They were really thoughtful and we appreciate your participation in our first live chat here at BillMoyers.com! Tuesday April 10, 2012 2:01 Moyers & Company

2:01	Moyers & Company:  Have a great day! Take care. Tuesday April 10, 2012 2:01 Moyers & Company