Preview: Fighting Creeping Creationism

February 26, 2013

From the time he was a high school senior in his home state of Louisiana, 19-year-old education activist Zack Kopplin has been speaking, debating, cornering politicians, and winning the active support of 78 Nobel Laureates, the American Association for the Advancement of Science, the New Orleans City Council, and tens of thousands of students, teachers and others around the country. On this week’s Moyers & Company, the Rice University history major joins Bill to talk about fighting laws that encourage teaching creationism alongside evolution in science classes, as well as school vouchers that transfer taxpayer money from public to private schools that can push a creationist agenda.

“We need to be teaching evolution and embryology and the big bang theory… They’re good, established science,” Kopplin tells Bill. “We’re not going to do what we need to really make the advances to keep our way of life and ensure the survival of the human race if we don’t teach our students science.”

Also on the program, journalist and historian Susan Jacoby talks with Bill about the role secularism and intellectual curiosity have played throughout America’s history, a topic explored in her new book, The Great Agnostic: Robert Ingersoll and American Free Thought.

Note: Some Moyers & Company broadcasts will be pre-empted across the country due to local pledge schedules. Please check our TV Schedule tool for the latest programming information where you live. The full show will be available for viewing online the evening of Friday, March 1.

Learn more about the production team behind Moyers & Company.

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  • Evolution is a Hoax

    Atheism is against Science. Who in their right mind would look at the fossil record and say Look! evolution. The reason there is the words “Missing Link” is because the fossil record should have been full, Only even, missing links, hundreds of millions of them. In fact, everything today should be in some sort of transition gaining wings or teeth etc.

    Here is a popular site that will show you hundreds of fossils, unchanged from what we have today.

    http://www.fossil-museum.com/fossils/
    The Pyramid is upside down, the variety is getting smaller and smaller. DNA is on the decay, not diversifying.

  • http://www.facebook.com/andrew.simpson.9634 Andrew Simpson

    And this disturbingly and profoundly deep lack of knowledge about the subject is one reason why Mr Kopplin’s campaign is so vitally necessary.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1145981734 Michael Adler

    your picture says it all

  • http://www.facebook.com/ryan.goetz.96 Ryan Goetz

    Wow

  • http://www.facebook.com/Snuffy5 Jack R. Smith

    Possibly the picture should indicate the other end of the animal.

  • Jovina

    Texas buys more school books than any other state, so the school book publishers publish what Texas wants, which is creationism. This leaves the other states stuck with these books. States need to pressure the book publishers to print scientific facts, not religion. This is a great opportunity for someone to compete with this publisher. You can believe whatever you want, just not with federal money. Maybe get the feds behind this, so that the Texas can’t use federal money to buy these books. This isn’t aethism. Many scientists believe in God; they also know facts. Evolution is not about creationism. Creationism does not belong in public schools. It belongs in Sunday School. I just find it strange. Never heard about this problem until I moved to Texas. They seem to be threatened by everyone, who isn’t like them.

  • Mike

    Science with admitted gaps makes sense. Religion which can’t say “we don’t know” and has to invoke myth and magic to (unsatisfactorily) answer questions is thinking of the dark ages.

  • Curiosity

    Please excuse my naivete, but regarding this unresolvable dichotomy, why is it so absolutely necessary to include either evolution or creation in a discussion of current and future science? I realize there was a past process which led to the present, but should we not focus on current processes in order to understand the environment we live in today?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Victor-Jacinto-Cano/1547466787 Victor Jacinto Cano

    Simply because evolution is *science* and creationism is NOT!

  • Dave D.

    Evolution is happening today, in everyday life. (It’s why there’s such a big stink about using antibiotics willy nilly.) But maybe more importantly, science isn’t a body of knowledge or a field, it’s a tool, a method, and evolution is a great example of how that tool works and the value it can (and has) brought us. This computer you’re typing on didn’t come from either ignoring scientific principles to avoid controversy, or from trusting that referring to ancient books was a suitable way to move forward. Kids need to be taught science, not how to avoid it.

  • David Comstock

    As a Presbyterian minister who has always taught my confirmation students that Genesis and Darwin are fully compatible, let me add a hearty “Amen!”

  • http://www.facebook.com/donald.drinkard.9 Donald Drinkard

    Actually, it is technically “The Theory of Evolution”, for it has never been proven, and there are some noted problems with the theory. It was once good scientific fact that the world was flat. But Isaiah 40:22 written before the birth of Jesus says “It is he [God] that sitteth upon the circle [sphere] of the earth…” And who came up with the tests that establishes the age of fossiles and such? Exactly how did they arrive at such a standard. And although it is astonishing that technology has come so far, why haven’t we found a cure for cancer? It is because science will never be perfect and everything will never be completely figured out. One can conclude that indeed a Creator was necessary in order to produce a scientific order that man will never completely understand

  • Robbie Lamons

    The past is the key to the future.

    If we didn’t know that the magnetic poles had changed orientation many times in the past, and that the switch did not coincide with massive die offs, and that early humans lived through those changes, how freaked out would we be when it happens again?

    If we did not know that early mammals had survived the die-off that marks the end of the Cretaceous, about 60 million years ago, would we be prepared for future impacts?

    If we did not know the early atmospheres of the Earth, and the one-celled life that grew then, producing oxygen as a waste product until there was enough to create a protective ozone layer, could we understand how we got mitochondrial DNA?

    Evolution is extremely important to understand, and to understand correctly.

  • Curiosity

    I “see” what you are saying. I was a kid once too and science classes were a mere fraction of the totality of one’s education. If the science is sound, couldn’t we trust our children to come to a logical conclusion if we focus on the correct method? This isn’t abut ignoring scientific principles, but leads children to think for themselves, which is what everyone is clamoring for anyway right? Not everyone who graduates high school is destined to become a scientist. Anything taught to children can be construed as indoctrination without teaching critical thinking skills. It seems to me that I might have been more interested in things scientific if I was taught the method and allowed to come to my own conclusions rather than being told “this is how it was and how it is.” Engage the natural curiosity of a child by mentoring the method and I believe the outcome would be a more productive and growing scientific society.

  • Curiosity

    Again, I do see your point, but do elementary school children need this level of knowledge to learn to read and write? Does the high schooler need this level of information to dissect a frog? This level of science and knowledge is appropriate for the collegiate level for sure, I’m just not convinced that the majority of school children would even be able to comprehend the historical context until, with the correct method, they can begin to explore the world around them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/morgan.andriulli Morgan Andriulli

    Creationism is not science, but a construct of religious myth to fill the gaps of what we did not understand at the time. It has no place in science curriculum. It should only be taught in the context of a theology or religious history course.

  • Curiosity

    Unfortunately (or fortunately depending upon one’s worldview), the existence of a non-resident creator cannot be empirically tested and verified. The scientific method is a very sound tool, but it cannot be used to prove the existence of an extraneous creator, regardless of the physical manifestations of their processes. Therefore the method of science can only lead one to conclusions (theories) based upon testable evidence. Both disciplines incorporate some level of faith, but creationism can exist only through faith. In the physical realm in which we exist, the creation can be tested, but the creator cannot.

  • Evolution is a Hoax

    Obviously you never looked at the evidence. I can go all over the world and find the same rock solid evidence proving that evolution is a false theory. And Darwin is the one who told us that this evidence would prove or crush his theory.

    Fact is, his theory is false, no matter how much science fiction and artist rendering and conjecture you rub on it.

  • Curiosity

    Then by all means please publish this information (proven through science) and publish it in a peer-reviewed publication so we can move on.

  • Evolution is a Hoax

    Wow is right, when I started digging, looking into it, the last thing I thought I would find is billions of uninvolved fossils, but its true.

    there are 10′s of thousands of “living fossils” and No plethora of transitional fossils. they are still trying to call pig teeth and monkey skulls Human. Its sad really.

    this video is just the tiny tip of the ice burg. when it comes to evidence against evolution.

  • http://twitter.com/hobodeluxe Jim Shields

    yes they do need to understand the principles of science at an early age. religious indoctrination begins at an even earlier age and they are often taught to eschew any ideas that conflict with that ancient book of myths. for fear of Hellfire and eternal damnation.

  • Curiosity

    Have you read this thread? I agree..principles…not complex theories. Evolution has its own threat of hellfire and damnation…its called bullying and stigmatization…which is why I wonder if either subject should be taught in early education. We want to raise free-thinkers? Then let our thinkers think freely rather than be told what to believe. Again, if the scientific method is so sound, if the method is taught, the result will be a much more educated (rather than indoctrinated) society.

  • Evolution is a Hoax

    The picture says” that I realize my failings” as should you.


    unfortunately your post was shallow and lacked more mature interaction.

  • Evolution is a Hoax

    regardless of your negative comment. Glad to see you commenting. The Banter hopefully will lead us all to study, to be informed and to be careful not to be harmful as we discuss while at the same time cheering for our point of few.

  • Evolution is a Hoax

    Jack, If I could give you some advise. Don’t use your last name and initial. last thing you want is some crazy stealing your Identity etc.

  • Facepalm

    Judging by your name “Evolution is a Hoax” you have already made up your mind on the issue. I have watched a few of your videos and you are as misinformed as you are foolish. Your lack of tact and insight is disturbing on a level I can barely express with words. The blind assumptions you spin as fact causes extreme harm, I feel sorry for you.

  • Evolution is a Hoax

    I’ll give you the same advise I gave others, Don’t use your last name. I don’t know why people would open themselves up to Identity theft and people snooping through who they are.
    If a website forces you to give a Postal code, google one and use it, because its just safe to give that much personal information out to potentially millions of people, 50 who might have the ability to take a mortgage out in your name or worse.

  • Evolution is a Hoax

    There is no need for publishing it. Its just the facts, I don’t see anyone publishing a paper about gravity.

    I have a patient on some geothermal grout, that was worth spelling out, but the fact that the fossil record proves evolution false is just there, for everyone to see, pick up a fossil, anywhere.

  • Evolution is a Hoax

    My mind is pretty well made up, but if you have some facts, I like facts. Tact? or forthright.

    which video? I like the one with the barrel eye fish. It shows how God or an Alien put this fish together such that the eyes are behind a dome, but the olfactory organs are where the eyes should be, fooling others to think it has eyes there.

    Another I like is the one where Dawkins suggests Aliens might have seeded our planet because it all looks very designed, and so it could be possible that it was by Aliens, but not by God of course.

    And you got to stop hitting yourself with your palm, it might be responsible for you not being able to see clearly.

  • Anonymous

    No, it wasn’t “good scientific fact that the world was flat.” That was one hypothesis which religion glommed onto as dogma, forcibly suppressing better rival ideas. Eratosthenes not only knew the Earth was round 200 years before Jesus, but calculated its circumference. It was your religion which enforced ignorance and error for centuries; and the world has only gotten better since science has shrugged off its benighted influence.

    As for dating techniques, that information is readily available if you cared to know. Science has never claimed perfection; religion has, but while science can demonstrate its progress time and time again, religion merely makes excuses for consistent failure.

  • Curiosity

    Actually, there is a lot published about gravity: http://metaresearch.org/cosmology/gravity/gravity.asp

    And yes, it is important to publish scientific findings of all kinds. If it wasn’t important, why type about it here? My guess is because you find it important for others to know.

  • Evolution is a Hoax

    I will publish something when I figure out how the nucleus of an Atom controls the size of the electron valance so that I can change it and create transparent Aluminum.


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  • Anonymous

    problem with your assertion is that every natural history museum around the world has concrete evidence against what you believe to a “hoax.”

    we know evolution happens down to a genetic level now. get over yourself. oh, and go to a fkn natural history museum… or colllege. that might help too.

    maybe the entire field of archaeology, geology, and biology are all hoaxes too. dumb@ss. ignorance is your own choice.

  • Evolution is a Hoax

    A lot of it is the same evidence, the problem is, they billion-ate everything and don’t provide evidence of transitions.

    I believe in Dino’s etc. the bible mentioned them before modern science found their bones.

    The problem is not with the Evidence its with the lack of evidence for Evolution. “artist renderings” and plaster is not evidence..

    But a Fish has been a fish from the beginning of time, and what is is what was. Even Ants, Flies etc.

    Just scan through this site.

    http://www.fossil-museum.com/fossils/

  • http://www.facebook.com/andrew.simpson.9634 Andrew Simpson

    In an ideal world your approach is perfectly reasonable (personally, I’ve never quite ‘gotten’ poetry much to the annoyance of some English teachers) but here we are actually dealing with bare faced liars who demand that we “teach the controversy” (i.e. evolution versus creation) when the truth is that said “controversy” is a fiction of their devising.

    Let us imagine that, say, in the teaching of American history (I’m from UK btw!) there were to be introduced a ‘controversy’ that the English rule, in fact, had been extremely benevolent (honest!) and that the Colonists’ Revolution was not only deplorable but sinful in the eyes of the Lord. Teach that controversy? Sounds like fun.

  • juliane1205

    Sorry but when people just utter dumb nonsense, like this “Evolutionisahoax”,someone has to tell them…..you can not leave that uncommented!! ……one has to tell them that they need to get an education otherwise the won’t be able to follow a spirited debate! It is scary what nonsense dumb people can spread.

  • terry

    Considering that only 11% of Americans belong to faiths that are incompatible with Biological Evolution, yet 46% of Americans reject the Theory of Evolution through Natural Selection, I conclude the data shows that Evolution Theory should be included in the very earliest stages of Elementary science curricula.

  • http://www.facebook.com/andrew.simpson.9634 Andrew Simpson

    I guess I’ve got to presume that the only reason you have not yet been awarded a Nobel Prize for demolishing Darwin’s theory is down to the International Conspiracy of Atheistic Scientists. On the other hand the Godly Scientists who have given us the good stuff (relief from toothache, plasma tv, sat nav, the internet, cosmetic surgery, drone defense systems etc ad nauseum) don’t seem to be on your side either.

  • http://www.facebook.com/andrew.simpson.9634 Andrew Simpson

    “It is he [God] that sitteth upon the circle [sphere] of the earth…” That bit ‘[sphere]‘ was that in the bible? Because a circle is actually two dimensional and, therefore, flat. And why haven’t we found a cure for cancer? Well, actually we have found some cures for certain kinds of cancers, like don’t smoke, avoid alcohol, keep away from asbestos, don’t get a job in a power plant with Springfield in its name. There are many cancers so not one cure, but the number of effective treatments is growing.

  • Darles Charwin

    You do realise that ‘living fossils’ don’t pose any problem whatsoever for evolutionary theory? Natural selection selects for mutations that confer an advantage, but if a species is already well adapted and no beneficial mutations arise, then we can expect it to stay more or less the same until conditions change and it is forced to select for a different set of traits. Evolution does not dictate that species ‘have to’ change over time. This is a misconception based on the belief that evolution is random. Evolution is not random – MUTATION is random but selection is not.

  • Darles Charwin

    + plenty of ‘transitional’ fossils exist. Gaps in the fossil record exist and are -expected- for the simple reason that most individuals of any species will not be preserved and become fossilised, and also simply because the likelihood is that the vast majority of fossils have not been found yet. Not only this, but evolution works in terms of slow, gradual change, meaning that the transition from one species to the next won’t just be a couple of stages, it will be almost infinite stages over the continuum of change. So, if we find a fossil that suggests a very near ancestor to humans, creationists can go ‘well that’s fine, but where’s the transition between THAT and humans?’ ad infinitum. In this sense, EVERY fossil is a transitional fossil, from whatever ever so slightly different thing came before, to whatever came after…

  • Robert McTigue

    @Evolution is a Hoax When you cross a Labrador with a Poodle you get a labradoodle .welcome to how evolution works.

  • http://www.facebook.com/andrew.simpson.9634 Andrew Simpson

    The article begins:
    “From the time he was a high school senior in his home state of Louisiana, 19-year-old anti-creationism activist Zack Kopplin has been speaking, debating, cornering politicians, and winning the active support of 78 Nobel Laureates, the American Association for the Advancement of Science, the New Orleans City Council, and tens of thousands of students, teachers and others around the country. ”

    I really disagree with you when you say that this is an unresolvable dichotomy. The point is that a vocal and well funded minority, for reasons best known to themselves, have declared what they call a ‘controversy’ betwixt Darwinian theory of evolution of species and the Book of Genesis account of the origins of the universe and living creatures therein. They think nothing of resorting to outright lies to support their claims.
    Never mind that Darwin had nothing to say about how the universe, planet Earth and its living inhabitants came into being, these people would have it that he did and, furthermore, what he (Darwin) said was wrong – and blasphemously wrong.
    This minority also holds the belief that our planet and hence universe is no older, at best, than 10,000 years.
    They would ridicule the work of centuries of astronomers, physicists, biologists, geologists, chemists, biologists etc and demand, yes DEMAND, that their beliefs be given equal status in the education of children in public schools.
    So next time you have toothache, or use the internet or chat with a friend a thousand miles away on a cell phone, or have your children vaccinated against killer diseases … just think how dangerous all these ungodly scientists are and how lucky we are to be blessed with these evangelicals who, for a few dollars worth of donations, will transport us to everlasting joy.

    Oh, and maybe spare a thought for the next generation’s employment prospects in an increasingly technological global world.

  • MU Student

    As far as I have learned in ALL academic science classes I have taken (2012-2013 C.E. or A.D. for some), is as follows: nothing science does is proven, nothing science does is fact, nothing in science is actually approved or disproved, science only supports a hypothesis or does not support a hypothesis. What scientific investigation process/experiment are some anti-creationists using to allow them to establish facts? I do not know who the author of this Science Student vs. Science Professor dialogue is, but the principle argument made is convincing (i.e. offering supportive insight):
    Professor : You are a Christian, aren’t you, son ?Student : Yes, sir.
    Professor: So, you believe in GOD ?
    Student : Absolutely, sir.
    Professor : Is GOD good ?
    Student : Sure.
    Professor: Is GOD all powerful ?
    Student : Yes.
    Professor: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to GOD to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But GOD didn’t. How is this GOD good then? Hmm?
    (Student was silent.)
    Professor: You can’t answer, can you ? Let’s start again, young fella. Is GOD good?
    Student : Yes.
    Professor: Is satan good ?
    Student : No.
    Professor: Where does satan come from ?
    Student : From … GOD …
    Professor: That’s right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?
    Student : Yes.
    Professor: Evil is everywhere, isn’t it ? And GOD did make everything. Correct?
    Student : Yes.
    Professor: So who created evil ?
    (Student did not answer.)
    Professor: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don’t they?
    Student : Yes, sir.
    Professor: So, who created them ?
    (Student had no answer.)
    Professor: Science says you have 5 Senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son, have you ever seen GOD?
    Student : No, sir.
    Professor: Tell us if you have ever heard your GOD?
    Student : No , sir.
    Professor: Have you ever felt your GOD, tasted your GOD, smelt your GOD? Have you ever had any sensory perception of GOD for that matter?
    Student : No, sir. I’m afraid I haven’t.
    Professor: Yet you still believe in Him?
    Student : Yes.
    Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son?
    Student : Nothing. I only have my faith.
    Professor: Yes, faith. And that is the problem Science has.
    Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat?
    Professor: Yes.
    Student : And is there such a thing as cold?
    Professor: Yes.
    Student : No, sir. There isn’t.
    (The lecture theater became very quiet with this turn of events.)
    Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don’t have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.
    (There was pin-drop silence in the lecture theater.)
    Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?
    Professor: Yes. What is night if there isn’t darkness?
    Student : You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light. But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isn’t it? In reality, darkness isn’t. If it is, well you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you?
    Professor: So what is the point you are making, young man ?
    Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.
    Professor: Flawed ? Can you explain how?
    Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good GOD and a bad GOD. You are viewing the concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can’t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing.
    Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?
    Professor: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.
    Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?
    (The Professor shook his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument was going.)
    Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor. Are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?
    (The class was in uproar.)
    Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor’s brain?
    (The class broke out into laughter. )
    Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor’s brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?
    (The room was silent. The Professor stared at the student, his face unfathomable.)
    Professor: I guess you’ll have to take them on faith, son.
    Student : That is it sir … Exactly ! The link between man & GOD is FAITH. That is all that keeps things alive and moving.
    By the way, that student was EINSTEIN.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=621836715 Kevin Schmidt

    Before you can publish a scientific paper, you must first become a scientist.
    Well, good luck with that!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=621836715 Kevin Schmidt

    “By the way, that student was EINSTEIN.”
    By the way, you used a logical fallacy, Appeal to Authority. The rest of your comment contains other fallacies too.

    Of course, science relies on observable, provable facts. One does not have to actually see the professor’s brain to know that he does indeed have brain. Nor does one have to observe evolution to know that it exists.

    However, one can observe evolution in action, simply by observing the evolution of antibiotic resistant pathogenic microbes, or in longer terms, the evolution of pesticide resistant bugs.

    I could go on, but by now one can conclude that Einstein’s line of reasoning in your example was quite unreasonable.

  • ORAXX

    It never seems to register with the creationist crowd that they have any need to prove their own point. They have the misguided notion that if Darwin can be discredited, they win by default. Sorry creationists……you have to proove what you’re saying too and simply attacking Darwin doesn’t do that.

  • http://www.facebook.com/roy.pearson.3139 Roy Pearson

    One problem here is that there is bias on both sides. I read here over and over that science makes sense and religion does not. That is just not true. I believe in Science and I am a strong supporter of evolution but science is just a more structured religion. It should never be religion or science, they are different things for different reasons.

  • Evolution is a Hoax

    Like I said before, everything should be transitional, but all the bells and blinkers are working, and the exact same things are in the same state 400 million years ago. That is not transition.
    incremental etc.

    http://www.fossil-museum.com/fossils/

  • Evolution is a Hoax

    then I guess everything was good enough to begin with cause there is no plethora of transitional fossils.

  • Evolution is a Hoax

    There are whole countries who are removing “darwins” theory from their text books and all the false examples, from the forgeries and the “artist renderings”

    http://io9.com/5915908/south-korea-will-remove-evolution-from-its-high-school-textbooks

  • Anonymous

    Bias on both sides? One side believes FACT, the other side does not believe facts. What is the bias? Science is not a “more structured” religion. You don’t BELIEVE IN science. Do you BELIEVE IN Mathematics, too? Chemistry?

  • Anonymous

    URBAN LEGEND. Go back to church.

  • Anonymous

    Now we know where the Sandy Hook Hoaxers get their logic: I didn’t personally see Adam Lanza shoot anyone, therefore no one died. Moon Landing Hoaxers: I didn’t personally go to the moon with the astronauts, so they didn’t go there either.

  • Anonymous

    I’m sorry. . . you cross one canine with another canine, and you get a canine. What does that have to do with evolution?

  • Anonymous

    Look up “theory” in a scientific dictionary. I can’t believe fundies are still using this lame argument.

  • Anonymous

    You have got to be kidding. Should we also trust our children to decide if 2 + 2 = 4? Is there anything that ought to be TAUGHT and not just have conflicting opinions thrown at children and have them decide which is valid?

  • Anonymous

    Do they really need sex education? @@

  • Anonymous

    Bullying and stigmatization? Curiosity, why don’t we just forget all about education till college? Let the kids stay home and play. What’s the good of school anyway? What exactly do you think children SHOULD be taught in school? ANYTHING?

    You remind me of a couple I knew years ago who had a child that they let make his own decisions. I remember one memorable week on vacation with a 4 your old screaming down the hallway because he hadn’t “decided” to go to bed yet. And ruined meals with the hellion, who “decided” he should climb on the restaurant table and take his shoes off. He was later homeschooled. His parents thought it was so much more useful to him to look out the window and imagine dragons than go to school. I don’t know what happened to the poor kid, we eventually were fed up with the disruptions.

    Sure, let’s let everyone “decide” what science they want to believe is valid. Oh wait, the anti vaxxers do that now.

  • Anonymous

    Actually, I work for an elementary and high school publisher. Many books have different versions for sale in Texes. Not only science but HISTORY books. Some of the chapters are deleted and replaced with whatever claptrap the Texans want to teach.

  • Anonymous

    How about you come up with some facts?

  • Anonymous

    Is that the banana video?

  • Anonymous

    yeah, i did scan through the site. It’s not back up by anything. If you want to parrot a singular site versus choosing to walk into the Hall of Human Origins at the Smithsonian, then whatever. You should understand the relationships of all beings prior to modern homo sapiens based on simple illustrations and a timeline in which we have all the bones of the related species.

    http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-family-tree

    each illustration links to the images of the bones. face the evidence.

    IBM and NatGeo head up the Genographic project which maps the migration of early humans based on DNA. that path is impressive in and of it self. look it up. the maps tell the tale.

  • Jim Fox

    Please, please look at this PRIME EXAMPLE of your Creator’s rotten (in His Own Image) ‘design’, then come back with a reasoned rebuttal of the facts stated here-

    http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2013/02/human-evolution-gain-came-with-p.html

    SEE- you cannot refute this can you??

  • Robbie Lamons

    I was introduced to the concept of evolution by my 3rd grade teacher. She asked; “If we don’t use our little toe, could it eventually disappear in our great great grandchildren’s lives?”; “If we have no use for our bellybutton, could it eventually disappear?” These were questions that stuck with me, and by middle school, I understood why the answers were no, but by thinking about deep questions, we grow dendrites in our brains. When Einstein rode the bus to his dull job, he thought about time; could it go backward, could it get faster or slower? What was time? He did make great strides toward understanding time. When I taught school, I had a board with “Great Questions” on it. This was 5th, sixth, and seventh grades. They came up with many, and we discussed them in class. A few were answerable, and most were there for them to think of.during the rest of their lives. My teacher did not understand evolution, but she made us think, that is the real skill in teaching.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=674717454 Gerry Kershaw

    Actually it’s Darwin’s theory.

  • Dennis Lee

    Good grief, this isn’t even an idealogical debate between divergent opinions. It’s a battle for which version of perception, belief or reality is the correct one. It’s driven by unenlightened religious white people who are willing to declare faith as a basis for truth and fact and who are the pawns of rich white people who have aligned with each other to obtain whatever gains they are pursuing. And this isn’t about race or racism. It’s about control of the meme and rejection of the American concept of equal yet differing points of view.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Richard-Hohn/1412891288 Richard Hohn

    An addict will do or say anything to justify addiction. This holds true for those religious zealots that require constant reinforce of their beliefs to stave off doubt. These people are so programmed that will accept nothing that is not in line with their beliefs. I believe that the type of thinking like that in Texas and Louisiana is a danger to the future of our country. The rest of world is moving forward in thought and principle and these folks are creating an entire generation that may literally threaten this country;s position among the nations of the world. This country is quickly becoming a laughing stock.

  • http://www.facebook.com/mike.hughjass Mike Hugh-jass

    i.e. Russell’s teapot

  • Alan C

    Too bad you don’t feel equally rabid about federal dollars to murder defenseless children in the womb. Big bang, huh? So you believe in something from nothing? Real intellectuals you are!

  • Alan C

    You mean like CScope whm?ere the liberal radicals made it impossible for parents and concerned citizens to review the curriculumhe only claptrap in our education system stems from the social misfits of the 60′s.

  • Alan C

    You got it wrong. Until you intellectual misfits can prove the big bang and abiogenesis “theories” as fact and not “educated” guesses, you might have a foundation from which to spout your illogical quasi-facts. LOL!

  • Alan C

    That same logic could be used against you. “I didn’t actually see the big bang or can even expalin how it happened, but if it didn’t happen we wouldn’t be here.

  • Elsie Washington

    More power to Zack Kopplin. We need many more like him in areas where creationism is creeping in.

  • http://twitter.com/newsvandal JP Sottile

    Even Brother Pat no longer buys into the “6,000 year old earth”>>Did Pat Robertson Finally Come to Jesus?
    http://newsvandal.com/2013/02/did-pat-robertson-finally-come-to-jesus/

  • Anonymous

    Whoosh! Right over your head.

  • Anonymous

    I’ll resist commenting on the lack of grammatical sense your comment makes, and your sentence structure, and ask if you truly believe most people are qualified to judge the subject matter of a textbook. What field of research do you study?

  • Albie Farinas

    Are you serious…? Which religion do you believe in, take your pick, or better yet, which science do you believe in, not much choice…?

  • http://www.facebook.com/tom.salicos Tom Salicos

    If you don’t believe in Evolution, you should be happy to take the same flu shot every year.

  • http://twitter.com/DianeDavaloz Diane Davaloz

    Evolution, big bang theory is just that -theory ; no proof it’s a fact. Creationism is based on faith. Both can’t be proven so why can[t both be presented in schools?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=719435296 Bradley P O’Brien

    Another strong argument for ending the state monopoly over the education system. Separation of education and state! I’d say its time has come, no?

  • Anonymous

    Evolution is a hoax is either a troll trying to get the kind of responses people are writing, or is really so ignorant of science that he (or she) believes the nonsense he is spouting and the nonsensical information on the websites he insists on linking. Either way there is no point to trying to engage a person like that because their mind is made up. He is too threatened by anything that might provide evidence against his fixed religious beliefs that nothing else will get through.

    As a scientist I am constantly looking for evidence that will falsify current theories. That is the surest way to get peer reviewed works published and the heart of the scientific method. The reality is that there is NO evidence to date which can falsify the general theory of evolution, although many of Darwin’s detailed ideas have been found to be wrong. Evolution is no longer a theory, but a fact. It can be observed around us every day. There is NO difference between “micro” evolution and “macro” evolution as creationists like to assert. The mechanisms are exactly the same. We continue to find MORE evidence in the fossil record that the changes that took place over eons through evolutionary processes and natural selection are what created the diversity of life on this planet.

    Ignoring all of that, even if there are flaws in current views of evolution, the default alternative position is NOT creationism. If we find something tomorrow that proves beyond a doubt that our concepts of evolution are wrong, we will have to look for other natural explanations. Turning to the supernatural, such as saying some being in the sky made everything, is not a rational or reasonable alternative.

  • TMJ

    Did anyone else catch the irony that Zack Kopplin has been working to stop creationism from being taught in schools, and then comes onto Moyer’s show to talk about the ‘challenges of free thinking’ in America? If we are to promote ‘free thinking’ shouldn’t we start by not preventing those we disagree with from voicing their opinions?

  • TMJ

    You mean admitted gaps like how human beings springing from primordial ooze? I don’t know of any religious people who are less willing to say “I don’t know” than evolutionists when asked to explain how primordial soup became animals. The theory of evolution has been around for 150 years now, and scientists still can’t prove any of it. Where are the petri dishes spontaneously growing animals?

  • Joe

    Petri dishes are not spontaneously growing animals because humans did not “spring” from primordial soup. To date, the most comprehensive theory in light of available evidence tells us that our common ancestor is a self replicating molecule recycling itself in a thermal water current. Is this absolute truth? Absolutely not. Real scientists are not only not reluctant to say “I don’t know,” but are exhilarated by it! That very statement lies at the origin of their work. No one researches something to discover again what they already know. The worst and most dangerous part of religion is the teaching that it is ok to say, “I don’t know why something is as it is, God did it.” This is counter productive and downright detrimental to the advancement of the human race. An infant was recently cured of AIDS. The virus was not “miracled” out of its body, it was killed by a cocktail of science administered over the childs life.
    Apollo 11 did not soar to the moon on wings of prayer, it was blasted there by two million pounds of science.
    I suggest that if you don’t like science, maybe you should start living like our caveman ancestors. Unless you think that god gave us running water and LED tvs.

  • http://twitter.com/yinzer65 Troy Gavazzi

    There’s a difference between opinion and scientific facts. We don’t need to waste time teaching opinions in Science classes, thus there is no Irony here.

  • http://twitter.com/yinzer65 Troy Gavazzi

    Look up the definition of Scientific theory and compare that with “Faith”. Not the same thing. Keep the faith BS in the church or the home where it belongs and not in the Science classroom. That way can have the next generation not be scientifically illiterate like you.

  • http://twitter.com/yinzer65 Troy Gavazzi

    Religion – Noun
    The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.
    Details of belief as taught or discussed.

    Science -Noun
    The intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural…
    A particular area of this: “veterinary science”.
    Synonyms
    knowledge – learning – lore – skill – scholarship

    You are wrong, but thanks for playing, Roy.

  • http://twitter.com/yinzer65 Troy Gavazzi

    Didn’t know whether to rate your comment up or down since I wasn’t sure if it was a Poe/attempt at humor or proof that you are a moron.

  • Curious Heather

    “Canada’s constitution is its supreme law, and any law passed by any
    federal, provincial, or territorial government that is inconsistent with
    the constitution is invalid.” As I am not an expert in American law, why is the Louisiana law even in existence? Surely you can’t enact laws on the state level that are in ruled in conflict with your own Constitution, can you?

  • Anonymous

    I’m sorry a billion is too large for you to wrap your mind around. Maybe we should analyze light years and see if you can wrap your mind around that… unfortunately you seemingly don’t have the tools you need to be able to grasp this.